SuzukiSavage.com - Loud knocking, I'm going in...

SinglesGoinSteady Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks like Bon Scott! Posts: 130 From Seattle, now in Savannah. Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #15 - 02/25/12 at 17:59:39 Ha ha, I see my Windows 7 on my new laptop automatically changed "pregnant dog" to "pregnant dog". WTF, big brother...
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SinglesGoinSteady Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks like Bon Scott! Posts: 130 From Seattle, now in Savannah. Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #16 - 02/25/12 at 18:00:59 F-*-C-K !!!! B-i-t-c-h !!! it did it again !
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28890 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #17 - 02/25/12 at 18:30:16 big brother yabb
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Mattdw

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #18 - 02/27/12 at 09:08:53

SinglesGoinSteady wrote on 02/24/12 at 11:48:53:

I bought my '98 (5700 miles) for a street tracker conversion. It had a loud knocking sound (does not sound like chain lash). The sound is like heavy metal hitting heavy metal deep inside. You can feel it in the bars. The knock is NOT there at idle, but, with any throttle it comes on then gets drowned out by typical motor noise at high rpms. It does sound like it could be a valve smacking something, but, from what I read there is a gap between the piston and valves at TDC. So maybe it's a loose bearing or wrist pin. It just seems so unlikely for a motor with so few miles on it.

I already checked the cam chain tensioner and had an extension welded on. It was out quite a ways, like 0.61". I borrowed a boroscope and my next step is to look in the cylinder, bottom of valves and top of piston for signs of damage. Then take the valve cover off and look for damage and the valves and check the gaps. After reassembly and firing up, if it still knocks, I guess time to take the head off. If you have any suggestions, let me know. Thanks guys.

This question may be a bit late, since you already took it all apart, but, did you check all the motor mounts to see if that was the source? I bought an '02 Savage, only had 6k miles on it. All was fine, until you rev'd her up...then the whole bike would rock and roll and vibrate your teeth out. Turned out the top motor mount bolt was loose. But the symptoms made you think the whole bike was about to fall into pieces. Tightened up the bolt, and voila...no more vibration.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #19 - 02/27/12 at 09:51:26 Eaux Neaux! & Yea,, thats a possibility,,
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SinglesGoinSteady

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #20 - 02/27/12 at 11:24:46

This question may be a bit late, since you already took it all apart, but, did you check all the motor mounts to see if that was the source? I bought an '02 Savage, only had 6k miles on it. All was fine, until you rev'd her up...then the whole bike would rock and roll and vibrate your teeth out. Turned out the top motor mount bolt was loose. But the symptoms made you think the whole bike was about to fall into pieces. Tightened up the bolt, and voila...no more vibration.

I almost snapped an allen wrench and some cheap sockets trying to get those bolts out, she was tight as a... tight.

Thanks though. Can anyone tell me what size socket I need for the belt drive nut/bolt? I had to use a massive crescent wrench which made me really nervous.

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drums1 Serious Thumper Offline '87 Savage Bashed--Down for the count Posts: 664 Racine, Wisconsin Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #21 - 02/27/12 at 11:27:14 From what he was describing, it sounds like more than a loose bolt on a motor mount. But oh, wouldn't that suck, if that was all it was, after having removed and disassembled the motor? Keep us informed as to what you do find. I think that bolt is a 31 or 32 mm.....
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Mattdw Full Member Offline Posts: 193 Frisco, TX Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #22 - 02/27/12 at 11:29:12 drums1 wrote on 02/27/12 at 11:27:14: From what he was describing, it sounds like more than a loose bolt on a motor mount. But oh, wouldn't that suck, if that was all it was, after having removed and disassembled the motor? Mine behaved exactly like that...there was a range of the rpms that shook like crazy.
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SinglesGoinSteady

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #23 - 02/27/12 at 11:42:32

drums1 wrote on 02/27/12 at 11:27:14:

From what he was describing, it sounds like more than a loose bolt on a motor mount. But oh, wouldn't that suck, if that was all it was, after having removed and disassembled the motor?

Keep us informed as to what you do find.

I think that bolt is a 31 or 32 mm.....

It would suck bad, don't even joke about that...

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SinglesGoinSteady

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #24 - 02/27/12 at 22:12:38

Okay, cylinder off and no catastrophic carnage. The boroscope was wrong, no burnt valve. Only thing I can see is some piston top scratches from my screwdriver while checking TDC and some slight discoloration on the RH exhaust valve. However, I noticed the rod is has a wee bit of side to side play on the crank. Being a teardown newb, I have no idea if this is normal or not. I assume it could be the source of my knocking, but, there also must be a hair of play there just from the pounding it takes. Bottom end guys, let me know what you think. You can see the pics below, they don't show much. A hair of scoring on the cylinder, but, I assume that's normal, no major gouging. It's either roll the dice and re-ring and hone, or buy a 2nd hand motor. What's the call, I'm all for getting this project on the road, maybe having a spare motor isn't all that bad. I'm just dreading putting a used motor in and hearing the same thing. You'd see a grown man cry :'(.

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SinglesGoinSteady Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks like Bon Scott! Posts: 130 From Seattle, now in Savannah. Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #25 - 02/27/12 at 22:13:02 And the valves:
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SinglesGoinSteady Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks like Bon Scott! Posts: 130 From Seattle, now in Savannah. Gender:	Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in... Reply #26 - 02/27/12 at 22:40:53 drums1 wrote on 02/27/12 at 11:27:14: I think that bolt is a 31 or 32 mm..... Thanks, it was a 32mm, picked one up tonight.
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ratz

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #27 - 03/01/12 at 12:45:23

Might want to check your piston skirt and the ring land clearance.
I just did the top end on an S40 with 10000 miles with the same knock you described. Apparently,the person he got it from got it good and hot at some point,caused the piston skirt to oval and deposit aluminum in the bottom of the bore.The ring grooves compressed enough to hang the rings up as well. The pictures you posted could have been pictures of the one I did.Looked good up top,cylinder bore looked good,problems were from the ring grooves down!

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SinglesGoinSteady

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #28 - 03/01/12 at 22:46:28

ratz wrote on 03/01/12 at 12:45:23:

Might want to check your piston skirt and the ring land clearance.
I just did the top end on an S40 with 10000 miles with the same knock you described. Apparently,the person he got it from got it good and hot at some point,caused the piston skirt to oval and deposit aluminum in the bottom of the bore.The ring grooves compressed enough to hang the rings up as well. The pictures you posted could have been pictures of the one I did.Looked good up top,cylinder bore looked good,problems were from the ring grooves down!

Thanks. Ya, I have not found any smoking guns, as in visible impact damage, but, my valves look WAY different than SillyDilly's. His were all wet and greasy (maybe rich, or normal), mine are black, sooty and the exhaust valves pure white from heat. So it was lean and hot for sure. I'm getting new rings and will hone it out, but, otherwise, I'm hoping it's just a valve adjustment/timing issue that cause the knock and that it will go away when I get it back together. I'm having a buddy look at the bottom end as best we can without splitting cases first too.

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SinglesGoinSteady

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Re: Loud knocking, I'm going in...
Reply #29 - 03/09/12 at 20:18:11

So I got it all apart and had my engine buddy take a look. All is in spec tolerance, but, I noticed the pin had a bit of friction when in the rod. Closer inspection revealed a pitting area that seems to cause some binding in the pin/rod connection. It seems the pin could bind or at least have resistance in the rod which I'm assuming could make the whole piston wear more heavily while in motion. You can see the wearing groove in the pics. Also, does ART make the stock pistons or is this an aftermarket piston? I'm going to look at a used motor tomorrow. I don't think this wear would cause the knocking sound, but, it could indicate that something more is going on and splitting the cases just seems impractical for the cost and effort and the risk that it never gets back together as good as factory anyway. Bummer. I will not be defeated... Grin

also see the pics on the following page.

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