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Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery (Read 163 times)
verslagen1
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Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
12/31/11 at 18:27:44
 
Here's a idea that's been brewing for some time and I think I found an answer.

We've discussed the micro batteries for awhile and problem is when it's dead, it's dead.  But when we 1st turn the switch on, it looks like we got juice.  That is till the starter sucks it dry.

Well, I found this link in my alternate world...

http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/tips/battelim.htm

what if we hooked this to the battery (stock or otherwise) in parallel with a diode in between the positive terminal so that the battery can charge it up, but not drain it.  Then the CDI would be hooked up to the capacitor only.  This way when the battery voltage drops below 10v and the starter starts to slow, you still have 10 to 15 seconds (maybe a lot more) of good 12v juice to the CDI!
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RidgeRunner13
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #1 - 12/31/11 at 22:19:45
 
That looks similar to the way I wired my Norton Commando in the '70s. I got a capacitor aout the size of a roll of half dollars from a radio/tv repair shop & added it in somewhere. Too long ago to remember exactly. I just know it would start on the first KICK almost every time, even with the battery dead, after it was installed. Before that it took 2-3 to get lit. You were the starter back then. If it could be wired so as to supply power only to the ignition circuits, it should really help run & bump starts on a Savage. Shocked

The Norton also had a right foot shifter. I rode a Honda 3-wheeler for my job at a salvage yard, searching for parts, left foot shifter. Talk about confusing! I'd go to shift & hammer the brake. Cool
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bluesavage218
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #2 - 01/03/12 at 13:35:18
 
Could you actually replace the battery with this? Did I read that correctly?
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verslagen1
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #3 - 01/03/12 at 13:51:20
 
bluesavage218 wrote on 01/03/12 at 13:35:18:
Could you actually replace the battery with this? Did I read that correctly?

Not with our set up.  You need the battery to initially charge it.
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bluesavage218
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #4 - 01/03/12 at 13:58:43
 
Ahhh I see. So could a smaller battery be used for that initial charge or would it still require the power that the battery (the one recommended for the savage) gives now?
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #5 - 01/03/12 at 14:38:43
 
I'm thinking that you could separate it from the main battery with a power diode and use it to energize the CDI and coil only.

So when your battery goes flat and will barely turn over the starter, you'll still have good spark.
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #6 - 01/03/12 at 16:47:05
 
dont caps discharge when they are static??
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #7 - 01/03/12 at 22:42:02
 
A charged cap will hold its charge quite a while. In the old picture tube type televisions, thers a place on the tu8be called the aquadag. If it been unplugged for months, it may still knock you off your feet.

NOTE* Aquadag sounds like it relates to water.. if you want to see if theres any water involved, touch it.. & see if you dont find some "water"..
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #8 - 01/04/12 at 08:56:19
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 01/03/12 at 22:42:02:
A charged cap will hold its charge quite a while. In the old picture tube type televisions, thers a place on the tu8be called the aquadag. If it been unplugged for months, it may still knock you off your feet.

NOTE* Aquadag sounds like it relates to water.. if you want to see if theres any water involved, touch it.. & see if you dont find some "water"..


Straight off Wiki.

"Aquadag is a trade name for a graphite based coating commonly found in cathode ray tubes. It is manufactured by Acheson Industries, a subsidiary of ICI. The name is a shortened form of "Aqueous Deflocculated Acheson Graphite". Other related products include Oildag, Electrodag and Molydag. The product names are often printed with DAG in upper case (e.g. AquaDAG)."

"Aquadag is a water based colloidal graphite suspension, and may be painted on to items to avoid build up of static, or provide electrical screening.
Aside from its use in the production of CRTs, Aquadag is used in many types of high voltage lab apparatus where the creation of a highly predictable electrostatic field is required. The surfaces of some metals (most notably aluminum) can develop nonconductive oxide layers which tend to disrupt the electrostatic field produced around the surface of the metal when used as an electrode. Aquadag is not subject to such effects, and provides a completely uniform equipotential surface for electrostatics."

There isnt a "place" called the Aquadag on a tube in a CRT. Its simply the coating in and on to tubes to screen stray electrical fields and prevent arcing.
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #9 - 01/04/12 at 11:03:08
 
My very first bike was a Kawi Triple; a 250cc S1! (that thing could barely get out of its own way, but it got me in plenty of trouble at 17!)

I remember that with the kick start, I could ride all day with no battery installed in the bike at all. Most modern bikes need the battery in the system for normal running. I know so little about motorcycle electrical systems that I don't have any idea why this is; but I remember thinking it has something to do with the charging/ignition system; The Kawi's is not the same as most other bikes, so the engine can run entirely off of the alternator; that's why they can run a battery eliminator.

I may be WAY off base here, but I am looking at those tiny L-I batteries for my build, so any more info that comes up here would be great

Thanks, Verslagen, once again for diving into the depths!!  
Keeps the rest of us from feeling like...  Undecided
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verslagen1
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #10 - 01/04/12 at 12:06:58
 
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A magneto is an electrical generator that uses permanent magnets to produce alternating current.

Magnetos adapted to produce pulses of high voltage are used in the ignition systems of some gasoline-powered internal combustion engines to provide power to the spark plugs.[1] The magneto is now confined mainly to engines where there is no available electrical supply, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. It is also universally used in aviation piston engines even though an electrical supply is usually available. This is because a magneto ignition system is more reliable than a battery-coil system.
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Re: Cavorting with the Demon Dead Battery
Reply #11 - 01/04/12 at 13:46:38
 
"It is also universally used in aviation piston engines even though an electrical supply is usually available. This is because a magneto ignition system is more reliable than a battery-coil system. "
My dad was an aircraft electrician with a Lancaster squadron in WWII.
He had to set the magnetos at 10000' altitude. The adjustments for the outboard engines were on the fuselage wall, but the inboard engines had them on the engines themselves so he had to crawl down the wing root to the engine to set them. No matter how much hearing protection he wore, the noise level was deafening. He got a small  ($110)/ mo pension because of hearing loss related to that.
BTW small outboard motors use magnetos as well.
The adjustment is the gap between the magnet and the coil.
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