Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Mikuni Carburetors (Read 866 times)
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #15 - 11/07/11 at 10:12:30
 
I don't suppose anyone wants to save me the trouble of waiting till i get home to measure the bolt spacing on the carb flange?

After looking I see there are two options: 70 and 75 mm for the VM38 flange.

hopefully one of those fits the savage....
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #16 - 11/08/11 at 05:46:20
 
Hm, measuring center to center, the holes are around 72mm apart. weird.

Put in an order at amazon for the flange (i just guessed which one) and the throttle cable, as well as an order at nichecycle for the guts of the carb.

few more days...
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #17 - 01/16/12 at 11:02:00
 
Finally got all the parts together for this. I put in a call to barnett-clutches and they custom-made me a throttle cable to perfectly fit a vm38 to a 2002 savage. cost was around $50 for the cable.

I bought a new VM38 off of amazon for around $95, $20 in jets (might go up, haven't thoroughly tuned it yet), $15 or so for the flange, and $50 for the cable. so roughly $180 give or take a bit, if you ignore all the errors I went through.

The bike runs well enough for now, but there is a lot of tuning to be done. Weather this morning was 16 and clear, so I took her to work, though the combined cold and new carb made me hesitant to do anything above 1/2 throttle. the important part is that she lives! though i will have to do something about the choke lever. it is hard to get to with gloves on...

if i remember, i'll try to update once i get the jetting right (running a cone with a jardine on a stock engine) and after a few tanks of gas for the mileage. of course, now that we're getting into the snowy season rides may be few and far between  :'(

Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10671
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #18 - 01/17/12 at 02:55:07
 
Which needle jet, jet needle, main jet and pilot jet are you running ?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #19 - 01/17/12 at 07:27:47
 
right now I'm running exactly what you recommended in this thread:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1262724030

needle jet: 166 q-2
jet needle: 6dp1
main: 185
pilot: 20

idle/low end seems good right now. she starts up just fine and idles decently enough, though the air screw is turned all the way in.

midrange is ok so far too, maybe just a touch of surging. no chance to test WOT yet.

the only "rides" i've been on were a two mile initial assessment right after i got the carb on in 26 degree weather with snow, and to/from work for 6 miles each on busy roads, morning at 16 degrees and dry and evening at 40(ish) and light rain. not the greatest conditions to be testing acceleration in   Undecided

looks like rain and snow until Sunday, so it might be a while yet before i get to tune her again. i might bump the pilot up (down? i don't know off the top of my head) one size to see if I can avoid having the mixture screw turned in the whole way.
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #20 - 02/01/12 at 06:59:26
 
backed the air screw out two and a half turns, seems to idle better now (definitely higher rpm and smoother) but pops on decel and surges a bit at low throttle.

beginning to think an overly rich air screw was covering up a lean pilot. choke use on the BS40 usually was a full minute, now it is down to 15 seconds or so after which the bike bogs down.

midrange still seems ok, no surging or hesitation.

top end/WOT still good. doesn't bog down or hesitate, no real noticeable speed increase when backing off from WOT.

Before turning the air screw out i had the bike randomly die on me a few times while sitting idle at a stop light. no warning, no bogging down, just idling away and then out like a light. one time was because i was out of gas. sure wasn't used to it dying so fast, the old BS40 sputtered for a good 10-15 seconds before it finally kicked the bucket. this roundslide just chugs along happy as can be until it up and decides it won't have no more and quits. kind of nerve wracking, but once i go through a few tanks and get the miles-per-tank sorted out it won't be so bad.

i'm hoping that upping the pilot jet will help, because I really don't want to adjust the jet needle or needle jet, as that involves taking out the slide, removing the throttle cable and spring, and then putting all those things back together. kind of a pain in the rear.

I've only pulled the plug once, after six miles or so of city riding (so sitting idle, then up to 1/2 throttle, then idle again) and it was a light brown, which is encouraging compared to white or solid black.

Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10671
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #21 - 02/01/12 at 11:34:40
 
spacepirates wrote on 02/01/12 at 06:59:26:
backed the air screw out two and a half turns, seems to idle better now (definitely higher rpm and smoother) but pops on decel and surges a bit at low throttle.

beginning to think an overly rich air screw was covering up a lean pilot. choke use on the BS40 usually was a full minute, now it is down to 15 seconds or so after which the bike bogs down.

midrange still seems ok, no surging or hesitation.

top end/WOT still good. doesn't bog down or hesitate, no real noticeable speed increase when backing off from WOT.

Before turning the air screw out i had the bike randomly die on me a few times while sitting idle at a stop light. no warning, no bogging down, just idling away and then out like a light. one time was because i was out of gas. sure wasn't used to it dying so fast, the old BS40 sputtered for a good 10-15 seconds before it finally kicked the bucket. this roundslide just chugs along happy as can be until it up and decides it won't have no more and quits. kind of nerve wracking, but once i go through a few tanks and get the miles-per-tank sorted out it won't be so bad.

i'm hoping that upping the pilot jet will help, because I really don't want to adjust the jet needle or needle jet, as that involves taking out the slide, removing the throttle cable and spring, and then putting all those things back together. kind of a pain in the rear.

I've only pulled the plug once, after six miles or so of city riding (so sitting idle, then up to 1/2 throttle, then idle again) and it was a light brown, which is encouraging compared to white or solid black.




When you say low throttle, how much have you turned it ?
Keep in mind that when trying to determine what size pilot jet is needed, you are working with idle to 1/4 throttle.
With the engine off, mark the idle position with a pencil/marker/whatever on the side of the switch housing and the edge of the throttle grip.  Then turn the throttle all the way to full throttle and mark that spot on the grip using the mark on the housing as a reference point.  Then mark half way between the two marks for half throttle, and do the same for 1/4 and 3/4 throttle.
Now you know with some degree of certainty when you are at or below 1/4 throttle and can use this to see how the pilot system is working.
Also keep in mind that on the Mikuni VM carb, turning the pilot screw OUT is "Leaning the mix" & turning it in is "richening the mix".
If the low range performance improved when turning out 2.5 turns, then you are almost to the point of going down one size on the pilot jet...not up in size.  
As always, whether on the VM carb or the stock carb, 3 turns out on the pilot screw is the max safe point.  Once at that point it is time to change the pilot jet and start over adjusting the pilot screw.
On the VM carb, if the rpm continues to increase as you turn the screw out and you get to or near 3 turns then its time for a smaller pilot jet.  You are leaning out the fuel/air mix in the low throttle range and if the engine likes it then give it more of what it wants...less fuel/unit of air.
It will run more efficiently; more power; smoother running; better mpg.
If it's happy, you will be happy.   Wink

Review the symptoms for RICH & LEAN conditions in the 3 general throttle ranges and always recheck for exhaust air leaks which can really spoil your efforts to tune the carb...especially where backfiring is concerned.  And check the plug after every jet change & and adjustment you make.  If checking the low range then never exceed 1/4 throttle when doing a test run.  For a midrange check stay within 1/4 & 3/4.....high range, stay above 3/4 but preferably at wide open until you hit redline and then cut it off, stop and when possible pull the plug and check it.
It can be a real pain and time consuming but its either that or pay for a dyno that can put it under load for a full range test.

Have fun dude !

The info on symptoms, tuning & more should be in the tech section.
If you have difficulty finding them you can go to www.mikuni.com and go to the bike section where they have excellent info and "how to".

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #22 - 02/01/12 at 12:25:30
 
I haven't marked my throttle, but i'm talking just over light pressure on the throttle is where i get some issues. 1/4 throttle max. right at idle it seems about spot on, and at about half it seems good.

I was operating under the impression that while there is some overlap, that the air screw and pilot jet were still separate circuits. the mikuni tuning manual has them as the same though, operating up until 1/4 throttle at which point the throttle valve takes over.

Some trial and error will have to happen with the jets to determine what works best. The tuning manual has the air screw and the pilot together when showing what circuits are working based on the throttle opening, but the section on tuning the two makes them seem rather separate. I'll try a bigger/richer pilot first and see what difference that makes. the risks for going rich are much less than going lean. of course, if the air screw and pilot really are very closely related this might be the opposite move i want to make (based on the engine running better with the air screw farther out -- leaner).
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10671
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #23 - 02/01/12 at 15:31:55
 
spacepirates wrote on 02/01/12 at 12:25:30:
I haven't marked my throttle, but i'm talking just over light pressure on the throttle is where i get some issues. 1/4 throttle max. right at idle it seems about spot on, and at about half it seems good.

I was operating under the impression that while there is some overlap, that the air screw and pilot jet were still separate circuits. the mikuni tuning manual has them as the same though, operating up until 1/4 throttle at which point the throttle valve takes over.

Some trial and error will have to happen with the jets to determine what works best. The tuning manual has the air screw and the pilot together when showing what circuits are working based on the throttle opening, but the section on tuning the two makes them seem rather separate. I'll try a bigger/richer pilot first and see what difference that makes. the risks for going rich are much less than going lean. of course, if the air screw and pilot really are very closely related this might be the opposite move i want to make (based on the engine running better with the air screw farther out -- leaner).


The pilot screw enables you to make some adjustment to the pilot circuit, based upon the pilot jet you have installed.  IF you need more than that small adjustment then you go up or down on the jet size.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #24 - 02/06/12 at 08:26:46
 
Went up a size in pilot jet, made the bike next to unrideable. Of course, me being me, I had to take off down the road before the bike warmed up with the starter circuit still on so a few blocks later when I switched it off I was greeted with a lot of surging and an bike that could only idle for a second or two before it died.

Got back home, put back in the #20 pilot jet, re-adjusted the idle speed screw and air screw and am fairly happy so far. I've ordered a #17.5 pilot jet so I can try that out whenever it arrives.

Jetting is a funny thing; earlier I could have sworn the bike ran like garbage on a #20 and idled like a dream on the #22.5, and yet a short ride later the #20 is almost perfect and the #22.5 was horrible.

midrange and WOT still seem good, though now I'm really waiting to judge them until I get low speed and idle finalized (after trying the #17.5 jet in the near future) before I start tweaking there. I plan on jetting the idle/slow based on the feel of the bike and the sound of the idle speed, but for mid and WOT i'll probably pull the plug a bunch of times after riding at mid/WOT for a few minutes to see what is really going on.
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #25 - 03/22/12 at 08:34:10
 
Think I've all but settled on the #17.5 pilot. The air screw is turned out about one turn and it seems to be idling well for now.

I've also put in a leaner #180 main but I haven't tested it out yet; I've just been going to/from work and the traffic here doesn't really allow for a WOT test just yet.

I have to add a comment about the two annoyances this carb is giving me so far: 1) the throttle cable is a PITA to take in and out, so i just leave it in meaning I have to work on the carb on the bike 2) the starter system instead of a choke means that the bike starts up right quick, but gets to the point where it stumbles before the engine is warm enough to be taken off the starter circuit. I have to ride it with the starter system on for a few minutes before it'll idle without the starter circuit and if i let it idle with the circuit engaged, the bike dies anyways!
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10671
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #26 - 03/24/12 at 17:16:22
 
spacepirates wrote on 01/17/12 at 07:27:47:
right now I'm running exactly what you recommended in this thread:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1262724030

needle jet: 166 q-2
jet needle: 6dp1

These are standard for a 38mm VM

I usually install a #17.5 or #20 pilot and a #180 or #185 main jet in both the 36 & 38mm VM.


main: 185
pilot: 20

idle/low end seems good right now. she starts up just fine and idles decently enough, though the air screw is turned all the way in.

midrange is ok so far too, maybe just a touch of surging. no chance to test WOT yet.

the only "rides" i've been on were a two mile initial assessment right after i got the carb on in 26 degree weather with snow, and to/from work for 6 miles each on busy roads, morning at 16 degrees and dry and evening at 40(ish) and light rain. not the greatest conditions to be testing acceleration in   Undecided

looks like rain and snow until Sunday, so it might be a while yet before i get to tune her again. i might bump the pilot up (down? i don't know off the top of my head) one size to see if I can avoid having the mixture screw turned in the whole way.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #27 - 04/16/12 at 07:32:41
 
my continuing adventure with jetting....

pilot jet is #17.5, idle screw maybe half a turn out (don't quote me on that)
I dropped the clip on the needle to the middle setting and that made the bike buck like a bull. back up the second clip from the top it goes (the lower the clip, the richer the setting)
Main jet is back up to a #185, but I can't really say about how that turned out. I gunned it once or twice to see if I could get past the needle jet range but I didn't have much road to work with, nor did I want to get bucked off my bike at higher speeds.

I did these tweaks last night and tried to get to work on the savage. I could ride at just above idle or at WOT, ha ha. Turned around to go back home after a mile and switched bikes.

by the way, who the heck designed these needles? annoying as all get out to freaking change, the way you have to compress the spring and pull the throttle cable through the spring which is pushing on the plate that holds down the other end of the cable and the slide. I ended up taking the throttle grip apart to get more slack. once I did that it was easier, but still not something that was pleasant.

Also, my VM38 came with a part that attaches to the bottom of the needle jet called a main jet extender. It is what the name implies, it is a larger nut that extends the main jet down further in the bowl by half an inch or so. I broke this part without trying at all. luckily it wasn't hard to get back out, but the part is $8 and now I feel all crappy about it  :'(
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10671
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #28 - 04/16/12 at 15:28:46
 

It should run fine without the main jet extender.  Just screw the main jet into the needle jet directly
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
spacepirates
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male
Re: Mikuni Carburetors
Reply #29 - 04/16/12 at 19:49:18
 
LANCER wrote on 04/16/12 at 15:28:46:
It should run fine without the main jet extender.  Just screw the main jet into the needle jet directly



That's how it is now, I kind of figured I'd be ok with it for a spell but I did order a replacement piece off of nichecycle because sometimes carbs have little bits of black magic that i'd rather not mess with.
Back to top
 
 

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/06/24 at 23:22:25



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Mikuni Carburetors


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.