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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #405 - 11/23/11 at 10:50:33

Serowbot wrote on 11/23/11 at 08:33:16:

Quote:

We are not genetically engineeried to eat grains.

Right,... because we're not genetically engineered at all...

.. a couple of conflicting points from Doc WB...
The wheat we eat today, is not the wheat as the wheat that existed 50 or 100 years ago...
.. yet, the grains that were eaten 5 or 10k years ago caused people to be sick and be less healthy or long lived than paleo men...
.. but,.. in Russia, remnants of wheat and other grains have been found on grinding stones at paleo sites dating 30 to 50 k years ago... Paleo man ate grains...
.. Paleo diets were different in different parts of the world... there is no "Paleo diet",... there is simply, the foods available in the region...
.. the average lifespan of a Paleo man was likely around 30 years... yet, fossilized bones have shown arthritis... the idea that Paleo man didn't have diabetes, or colon cancer, or tinnitus, or migraines, is BS,.. how would we know?... fossilized MRI scans and BP monitors?... We're looking at bones here,.. fossilized bones...
We don't know,.. and the great DR don't either... BS!...

Right up there with creationist science...
There are "scientific studies" that prove the world only 5,000 years old, and we lived with dinosaurs, too...
I wouldn't bet my life, or health on them...

Semantics aside, do you feel our bods had not adapted, over hundreds of thousands of years, to the food most prevalent for that time period?

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arteacher

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #406 - 11/23/11 at 11:15:57

Gyrobob wrote on 11/23/11 at 10:50:33:

Serowbot wrote on 11/23/11 at 08:33:16:

Quote:

We are not genetically engineeried to eat grains.

Right,... because we're not genetically engineered at all...

.. a couple of conflicting points from Doc WB...
The wheat we eat today, is not the wheat as the wheat that existed 50 or 100 years ago...
.. yet, the grains that were eaten 5 or 10k years ago caused people to be sick and be less healthy or long lived than paleo men...
.. but,.. in Russia, remnants of wheat and other grains have been found on grinding stones at paleo sites dating 30 to 50 k years ago... Paleo man ate grains...
.. Paleo diets were different in different parts of the world... there is no "Paleo diet",... there is simply, the foods available in the region...
.. the average lifespan of a Paleo man was likely around 30 years... yet, fossilized bones have shown arthritis... the idea that Paleo man didn't have diabetes, or colon cancer, or tinnitus, or migraines, is BS,.. how would we know?... fossilized MRI scans and BP monitors?... We're looking at bones here,.. fossilized bones...
We don't know,.. and the great DR don't either... BS!...

Right up there with creationist science...
There are "scientific studies" that prove the world only 5,000 years old, and we lived with dinosaurs, too...
I wouldn't bet my life, or health on them...

Semantics aside, do you feel our bods had not adapted, over hundreds of thousands of years, to the food most prevalent for that time period?

Why aren't our bods adapting now? or are they? We have been eating wheat for thousands of years. Why all of a sudden is it bad for us? The genetic modifications to wheat? The basic composition is unchanged. It has only been made more resistant to disease and more hardy for a longer growing season. Now the crap they put in it ( and everything else)
is something to be concerned about.

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Serowbot

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OK.... so what's the
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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #407 - 11/23/11 at 11:20:27

Hunter/gatherer, is just a more glamorous way of saying scavenger...

I think, early man ate most anything that was edible.. That would vary wildly based on on where in the world he was...
... but, the caloric balance is thought by experts to be, predominantly vegetable... 2 to 1 over meat... with fish entering in the later Paleo for some groups,.. and when available, it would also be of a larger portion than red meats...
The point being,.. we would be genetically evolved to eat what's about...
We're pretty versatile...

But, besides that... where does this evidence come from, of long lived, cancer free, healthy, limber, cavemen?... This is not knowable with current science...
We have bones... that's it... and the bones did show arthritis...
That is fact...
Wheatbelly and the other Paleo's are making up facts, using quack science, and creating myth...
We can't currently find cause of death, in corpses that are found six months old... ...cause of death in mummy's 1,000 to 5,000 years old, are just speculation... but much more accurate than 30,000 year old fossils...
I like history and science,... I just ain't buying this evidence...

Some, elements of a lower carb diet might be healthy,.. but others not... That remains to be seen... long term...
... but the "Paleo" element of the theory, is nonsense...

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justin_o_guy2

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What happened?

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #408 - 11/23/11 at 11:28:52

I wonder when it was that people developed the "Im not eatin that! Thats GROSS!" & in some places, a big juicy rat is a delicacy. Once upon a time, the bacon we now consider part of a good breakfast was considered crap.
Madison avenue has impacted our lives to the core.

By M. Avenue, I mean not just M. Ave. but the pressures that change attitudes in general.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #409 - 11/23/11 at 11:34:33 When the pilgrim landed upon the shore, he had to brush a way clear for all the lobsters roaming about. and they were considers crap too.
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arteacher

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #410 - 11/23/11 at 11:35:18

Quick question- What has sustained, and continues to sustain, this thread through 28 pages?
Are we running around in circles yet? Is the horse dead?
Another question- the stuff we feed cattle and horses now is way different than what they evolved to eat (grass) and yet they seem to be doing OK. Why?
Another question- has Dr. Davis submitted his findings, in the form of a research paper, to the A.M.A, or any other health organization?
If he is so concerned about our health why doesn't he donate the proceeds from his book to nutritional research? Surely he doesn't need the money to live on. The large amounts of money he is in the process of making could fund some real empirical research into the matter- not the anecdotal stuff he has come up with.
IMHO this thread should be made a sticky, titled "Wheat Belly" so the people who want to continue to argue on it can have a special place that the rest can ignore.
Yet another question- if we were suddenly banned from eating wheat and corn, would a planet containing 7 billion people not starve to death?
If all the land now used to crow carbs was changed (where possible ) to sustaining meat production there would,t be enough land to sustain the current, or even half the current population.
Good or bad we need carbs as a race.

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #411 - 11/23/11 at 12:09:02

arteacher wrote on 11/23/11 at 11:15:57:

Gyrobob wrote on 11/23/11 at 10:50:33:

Serowbot wrote on 11/23/11 at 08:33:16:

Quote:

We are not genetically engineeried to eat grains.

Right,... because we're not genetically engineered at all...

.. a couple of conflicting points from Doc WB...
The wheat we eat today, is not the wheat as the wheat that existed 50 or 100 years ago...
.. yet, the grains that were eaten 5 or 10k years ago caused people to be sick and be less healthy or long lived than paleo men...
.. but,.. in Russia, remnants of wheat and other grains have been found on grinding stones at paleo sites dating 30 to 50 k years ago... Paleo man ate grains...
.. Paleo diets were different in different parts of the world... there is no "Paleo diet",... there is simply, the foods available in the region...
.. the average lifespan of a Paleo man was likely around 30 years... yet, fossilized bones have shown arthritis... the idea that Paleo man didn't have diabetes, or colon cancer, or tinnitus, or migraines, is BS,.. how would we know?... fossilized MRI scans and BP monitors?... We're looking at bones here,.. fossilized bones...
We don't know,.. and the great DR don't either... BS!...

Right up there with creationist science...
There are "scientific studies" that prove the world only 5,000 years old, and we lived with dinosaurs, too...
I wouldn't bet my life, or health on them...

Semantics aside, do you feel our bods had not adapted, over hundreds of thousands of years, to the food most prevalent for that time period?

Why aren't our bods adapting now? or are they? We have been eating wheat for thousands of years. Why all of a sudden is it bad for us? The genetic modifications to wheat? The basic composition is unchanged. It has only been made more resistant to disease and more hardy for a longer growing season. Now the crap they put in it ( and everything else)
is something to be concerned about.

Our bods take a lot longer than 10,000 years to change genetically.

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #412 - 11/23/11 at 12:31:50

Serowbot wrote on 11/23/11 at 11:20:27:

.............Wheatbelly and the other Paleo's are making up facts, using quack science, and creating myth.........

If you had read the book and checked out the hundreds of studies referenced, and/or done some research on your own, you'd see how untrue your statement is.

Besides, he didn't start off with a cool idea for selling books and then find studies to support it, he is a cardiologist. He has had thousands of patients. Over time he discovered that when he used the "approved" diets as espoused by the wheat lobby and the USDA, his patients got worse and he had to rely on heavy-duty drugs to keep them alive longer. (big pharma is part of this fraud, btw)

After researching it himself and listening to recommendations from other doctors who recognized the same whole-grain stupidity, he started changing how his patients should eat. After many years, he was able to keep them off the egregious drugs, and in many case make the heart disease actually go away. (same with diabetes)

The fact that his patients now tend to get cured, rather than just survive a little longer (albeit with a terrible quality of life) through the use of the drugs is not quack science, it's what he does with real people.

Anyway, it is unfortunate that some here regard this whole discussion as just a tawdry effort by me to promote some book. Hardly. I'm not trying to do anything other than present the info. This wheat-free thing REALLY works. It does! After researching it thoroughly, I felt it strongly enough that I decided to bet my health on it. I am actually healthier,... in all kinds of ways as I've mentioned in previous posts.

I am at a loss to why there is so much resistance and argument here. Why the accusations of quack science? Why demean the guy who is on to something here that has saved a lot of lives, just in his practice?

Why fight me over this? I can understand disinterest. But why are there so many nasty remarks about the good things this wheat-free thing allows? These aren't false claims. Good things actually do happen. I'm living proof. My bod is different than it was while on wheat. The daily pains and annoyances I had gotten used to over the past several decades, I had just come to accept as normal for a 64 year old guy. Lots of these pains and annoyances are GONE!!

sorry about the rant

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arteacher

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #413 - 11/23/11 at 12:39:31

Gyrobob wrote on 11/23/11 at 12:09:02:

arteacher wrote on 11/23/11 at 11:15:57:

Gyrobob wrote on 11/23/11 at 10:50:33:

Serowbot wrote on 11/23/11 at 08:33:16:

Quote:

We are not genetically engineeried to eat grains.

Right,... because we're not genetically engineered at all...

.. a couple of conflicting points from Doc WB...
The wheat we eat today, is not the wheat as the wheat that existed 50 or 100 years ago...
.. yet, the grains that were eaten 5 or 10k years ago caused people to be sick and be less healthy or long lived than paleo men...
.. but,.. in Russia, remnants of wheat and other grains have been found on grinding stones at paleo sites dating 30 to 50 k years ago... Paleo man ate grains...
.. Paleo diets were different in different parts of the world... there is no "Paleo diet",... there is simply, the foods available in the region...
.. the average lifespan of a Paleo man was likely around 30 years... yet, fossilized bones have shown arthritis... the idea that Paleo man didn't have diabetes, or colon cancer, or tinnitus, or migraines, is BS,.. how would we know?... fossilized MRI scans and BP monitors?... We're looking at bones here,.. fossilized bones...
We don't know,.. and the great DR don't either... BS!...

Right up there with creationist science...
There are "scientific studies" that prove the world only 5,000 years old, and we lived with dinosaurs, too...
I wouldn't bet my life, or health on them...

Semantics aside, do you feel our bods had not adapted, over hundreds of thousands of years, to the food most prevalent for that time period?

Why aren't our bods adapting now? or are they? We have been eating wheat for thousands of years. Why all of a sudden is it bad for us? The genetic modifications to wheat? The basic composition is unchanged. It has only been made more resistant to disease and more hardy for a longer growing season. Now the crap they put in it ( and everything else)
is something to be concerned about.

Our bods take a lot longer than 10,000 years to change genetically.

Nonsense- we are changing genetically much faster than that. what about regional differences in appearance? For example blonde haired blue eyed Scandinavians, or the different appearance of northern Italians to southern? Heck we created the domestic cow in what- 2000 years? 1500?
Selective breeding or inter -breeding- we are changing faster than we ever have before.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #414 - 11/23/11 at 12:51:49 Our human body is a marvel,It adapts to what ever we eat,I don't eat vegetables and am healthy,Star is a vegetarian and he's healthy.The Japs eat fish and rice and they were healthy,My body has well adapted to wheat as has 99.9 of the people. Now write a book on why you shouldn't drink milk when your eating fish.
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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #415 - 11/23/11 at 12:54:08 "and in many case make the heart disease actually go away. (same with diabetes)" Sorry Gyro THERE IS NO CURE FOR DIABETES.
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Serowbot

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OK.... so what's the
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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #416 - 11/23/11 at 13:33:34

Quote:

If you had read the book and checked out the hundreds of studies referenced, and/or done some research on your own, you'd see how untrue your statement is.

If you do all you research, from the evidence and references in one book,... you will come to the same conclusion as that book does...
This is equivalent to faith based research...

I'm looking at evidence from outside of Paleo diet science...
Anthropology, archeology, medicine, and nutrition,... not the gospel of Wheatbelly...
That's proper research... does his story match up to what is known?...
No,.. it doesn't...

I'm not knockin' you for what you choose to eat... just the theory that the Dr. is using to justify it...
.. and other people should know, that it is wrong... then, they can decide to try it if they like...
If you should try it,.. you should try to get 60% or more of your calorie intake from the vegetable side instead of the meats...
That becomes a little difficult when you leave out staple carbs....
We don't have the four stomach compartments for it,... like cattle...
We need our carbs...

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arteacher

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #417 - 11/23/11 at 13:54:28

Gyrobob wrote on 11/23/11 at 12:31:50:

Serowbot wrote on 11/23/11 at 11:20:27:

.............Wheatbelly and the other Paleo's are making up facts, using quack science, and creating myth.........

If you had read the book and checked out the hundreds of studies referenced, and/or done some research on your own, you'd see how untrue your statement is.

Besides, he didn't start off with a cool idea for selling books and then find studies to support it, he is a cardiologist. He has had thousands of patients. Over time he discovered that when he used the "approved" diets as espoused by the wheat lobby and the USDA, his patients got worse and he had to rely on heavy-duty drugs to keep them alive longer. (big pharma is part of this fraud, btw)

After researching it himself and listening to recommendations from other doctors who recognized the same whole-grain stupidity, he started changing how his patients should eat. After many years, he was able to keep them off the egregious drugs, and in many case make the heart disease actually go away. (same with diabetes)

The fact that his patients now tend to get cured, rather than just survive a little longer (albeit with a terrible quality of life) through the use of the drugs is not quack science, it's what he does with real people.

Anyway, it is unfortunate that some here regard this whole discussion as just a tawdry effort by me to promote some book. Hardly. I'm not trying to do anything other than present the info. This wheat-free thing REALLY works. It does! After researching it thoroughly, I felt it strongly enough that I decided to bet my health on it. I am actually healthier,... in all kinds of ways as I've mentioned in previous posts.

I am at a loss to why there is so much resistance and argument here. Why the accusations of quack science? Why demean the guy who is on to something here that has saved a lot of lives, just in his practice?

Why fight me over this? I can understand disinterest. But why are there so many nasty remarks about the good things this wheat-free thing allows? These aren't false claims. Good things actually do happen. I'm living proof. My bod is different than it was while on wheat. The daily pains and annoyances I had gotten used to over the past several decades, I had just come to accept as normal for a 64 year old guy. Lots of these pains and annoyances are GONE!!

sorry about the rant

You have a basic misconception Gyro. Dr Davis is singling out wheat as the bad guy, but it is the over-consumption of carbs that is the bad guy.
You think no wheat has improved your health, and I won't argue that possibly it helped a bit, but the big improvement in your health is more due to the way you are eating in general. Don't forget, I went off JUST WHEAT for a month and it did me no good at all. How well would Dr. Davis's patients have done if he had made no changes to there diet other that saying "no wheat". What he did was recommend a healthy diet that contained no wheat and changes in lifestyle as well. (more exercise, and generally more activity.) Of course they improved.
The main reason that people have been attacking you and the book is the zealousness of your presentation and the abrasiveness of your defense of the book. This may sound strange, but the fact that you post in a larger bold face font also annoys people, whether they realize it or not. It gives the (subliminal) impression that you feel that what you have to say is more important than what everyone else has to say.
If it is any consolation I still am not eating as much wheat as I used to before I cut it out altogether, but along with that I have reduced my carb intake in general ( I still pig out on spaghetti, my absolute favorite food).

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Z Full Member Offline Ride Baby Ride!!! Posts: 144 Northwestern PA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #418 - 11/23/11 at 14:51:20 +1
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #419 - 11/23/11 at 15:24:47 arteacher wrote on 11/23/11 at 12:54:08: "and in many case make the heart disease actually go away. (same with diabetes)" Sorry Gyro THERE IS NO CURE FOR DIABETES. Dr Davis and his cohorts must be lying then. Darn.
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