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Question: What do you think about the vac petcock (multivote is OK)

Great technology that needs periodic rebuild
Aggravating thing that needs replacement
Not a potential cause of other issues
Is a potential cause of other issues
I will keep mine forever (rebuilds as needed)
When mine craps out I'll go Raptor
===========
I haven't had to deal with it yet -- no opinion


« Last Modified by: Oldfeller--FSO on: 08/18/11 at 10:16:24 »

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Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<< (Read 529 times)
mr.HUBA
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #15 - 08/17/11 at 23:17:36
 
done deal, this should be a picnic compared to carb removal
Grin
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION
Reply #16 - 08/17/11 at 23:20:53
 
I'm saying,... everything past the float needle is wide open to gravity flow of any liquid...
Gas goes everywhere...every direction... all at once...
Vent tubes, air box, intake,.. down the cylinder walls into the crankcase...
Everywhere !...  except, back up into the gas tank... which is securely blocked off by the float needle...

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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #17 - 08/17/11 at 23:23:28
 
so what's failed the float valve or the petcock diaphragm?
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION
Reply #18 - 08/17/11 at 23:28:00
 
I really don't understand how you think cause the diaphragm failed, gas will fill up the intake manifold and then into the bowl and out the vent tubes.  Don't you think the airbox will fill up with gas 1st? and the case and cylinder?  Remember there's only 3 gal's in the tank.
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION
Reply #19 - 08/17/11 at 23:29:47
 
If there's gas in the vacuum line... it came from the backside of the petcock... the rubber vacuum diaphragm in the petcock ruptured, and is letting gas flow past it down the vacuum line into everything... the float system can't stop it, because it only blocks off the fuel line... not the vacuum line...
Big trouble.... uncontrolled gas flow...

... if the intake valve happens to be closed, it will sorta' block flow to the crankcase... gas flows to the air box, 'till the filter is saturated enough to restrict easy flow,... the next path of least resistance is up the vent lines...
Gas will flow until the level in the tank is lower than the last point of escape... ever slower, but not stopping until empty...
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #20 - 08/17/11 at 23:34:31
 
I give up... trying to explain my point.  The only way is to let your guinea pig swap out the petcock and have the same problem.  He's all yours.
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION
Reply #21 - 08/17/11 at 23:42:47
 
Versy,... pour gas down your vacuum line and see what happens...
Are you that confident in your theory?...
I hope not...

Really,... don't... just think it through...
Gas will flow any direction that is lower that the level of gas in the tank...Wink...
This is no longer theory to me,... I've watched it happen... so have many others here...

SHOOT!... HUBBA!...  Change your oil and clean out your air filter and air box before you ride...
At least check them... Wink
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #22 - 08/17/11 at 23:53:14
 
I'm confident that gas will not come out the vent tubes if the petcock diaphragm fails.
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #23 - 08/17/11 at 23:56:35
 
Should I believe you?... or my own lyin' eyes?...

Huh...
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #24 - 08/18/11 at 00:02:06
 
From the horses mouth...
mr.HUBA wrote on 08/14/11 at 09:27:01:
For example last night around 1AM when I was on route to go home, my bike would start up, no gas needed to give, it would idle fine. But as I let it warm up for a bit, id take the bike a a few feet down the road slowlh and it would start slowly dying off unless I gave it a good throttle turning. [during this throttle giving part, this is when gas starts to leak out of o e of the carb vents and it can get up to a barf of gas at time, and it also drips out of the bottom breather tube, i belive that goes to the air box?]


Classic float valve failure.

While the engine is running there's absolutely no way gas will go from the vac line, into the carb bowl and out the vents.
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #25 - 08/18/11 at 00:08:52
 
Okay,... after this, I absolutely give up...
Assuming your float theory,... what makes it any different?...
If the gas can't make it's way out the vent tubes with a leaky vac line,... what makes it possible with a leaky float?...
Nonsensical... are there different rules for gravity if the fuel enters the same place from a different direction?...
Huh...
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #26 - 08/18/11 at 00:23:06
 
Vent tubes are connected to the bowl right?
So at anything less then WOT, gas flow into the bowl exceeds gas used and fills up the bowl then out the vent tubes.
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION
Reply #27 - 08/18/11 at 00:26:57
 

Float assemblies tend to stick when they get to the absolute ends of their travel.

Vac petcock illness can fuel starve a bike and the float assembly goes down to the low end of its travel and it can stick in the open position.

Supply gas again with the float stuck open and you can get the gross flooding symptoms mentioned above.

Heck, I had mine stick the other way, in the closed position too.

Same fix in either condition -- whack the bowl 2-3 times with a screwdriver handle and jar the float assembly so it starts moving again and things will tend to even out in the center 'NORMAL FLOAT TRAVEL" position provided you finally have a petcock that always provides gas in quantity when expected.

"Floats getting stuck" goes hand in hand with the float level irregularities of a sick vac petcock showing its stiffness of diaphragm gas starvation arse -- you don't even have to go to the extreme of splitting the vac petcock diaphragm to get some serious flooding.


=============


And yes, I/we think vac petcock irregularities happen to get involved in a lot of "different stuff" -- sad thing is when the Raptors go in the shite stops happening.

(so far anyway Raptors have proven out to be a fix).

Eventually whatever it is won't stop and I'll be wrong and then you can say a hearty

"Aha !! I done told ya so !!"

Odds are it will happen, but right now I'd have to screw up a whole lot of times to equal out the times I've already been right.

Most controversial item that I think that has been done by the vac petcock is damaging engines due to minor galling of the pistons due to lean/overheating and/or lube film dilution -- but we got at least one clean confirmation on that theory now just recently.    We are still waiting for somebody to offer evidence of sudden onset oil consumption, but logically that is just a mild case of the partial seizure that has already been confirmed.


=======================



<Vent tubes are connected to the bowl right?
So at anything less then WOT, gas flow into the bowl exceeds gas used and fills up the bowl then out the vent tubes.>



Let's just say a float sticks in the full down position due to gas starvation emptying out the bowl completely.

(starvation happens, we know the bikes die and give trouble starting back up cause the bowl is EMPTY)

Stuck open float flooding that would be massive enough to fill up the bowl and to go up an additional vertical 3-4 inches worth of vent tubes would also be gushing out of the main jet around the slide needle clearance (and the pilot jet and any other passage between bowl and venturi areas) and mebbe this flow of loose gas could be running down the intake rubber to the head and getting past a cracked open intake valve to the top of the piston and going around and down past the ring gaps and down the cylinder walls into the sump, washing off oil film as it goes ....

(and that's if the engine isn't running, if it IS running and sucking in masses of air to pick all that gas up into overwet torrents of mist and then sucking it all directly into the cylinder, well it gets there quicker and it isn't all going to burn because there isn't enough air to burn it all so the walls get washed down with gas droplets that again dribble down and wind up in the sump ......)

Now let's throw this into "everything all running at once" motion with the vac petcock partially starving things while the float is stuck open trying to flood things -- wow, I think it could get downright confusing ....

Throw in a split in the diaphragm if you really really really think you need to.

.... you already can't sort out which from what and "why" is already floatin' and a bobbin' in the bilges right next to the sorry rascal bad vac petcork which started the whole durn thing to spinning ....

So far Raptors make the bad stuff stop

and so far Raptors haven't been seen to put any gas into any sumps

not yet anyway

(perhaps because floats are staying in the normal zone in the middle rather than going to the ends of travel all the time)

But we are all looking for it, you me Routy Verslagen and Serobot and everybody else ....
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« Last Edit: 08/18/11 at 03:26:10 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #28 - 08/18/11 at 05:41:28
 
For some strange reason, I suddenly feel compelled to run (not walk) and purchase me one of them there Raptor Petcocks. Surely this will fix all that ails my poor bike?

Shocked
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Re: Raptor Time indeed. . . QUESTION<<<<<
Reply #29 - 08/18/11 at 06:13:36
 
Y'all are making this way to hard.

PLUG the vacuum line & turn the petcock to PRIME. If you still get fuel from the vent tubes, the problem is a leaking needle & seat. If you no longer get fuel out the vents, the problem is the petcock leaking from the vacuum line. Cool

Of course there could be more than one problem occuring at the same time, but that is unlikely. Shocked

HTH. Wink
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Wind me up & watch me run, I ain't never had too much fun!
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