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Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock... (Read 360 times)
justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #15 - 08/10/11 at 10:37:31
 
verslagen1 wrote on 08/10/11 at 09:58:16:
CalisOsin wrote on 08/10/11 at 09:22:45:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/09/11 at 15:13:47:
You cant compress the foam by dropping the helmet


How do you qualify that statement? The outer shell can easily flex and dent the foam from the outside, thus subtracting from it's compression area.

Helmets are designed to protect the wearer from an impact.
Let's call this impact 20 g's for simplicity.
Average wearer maybe 200 lbs.
So 20 times 200 = 4000 lbs (slugs... but let's not go into that)
This is distributed over an approximate 6" x 6" area
4000 times 36 (let's say 40) = 160,000 psi
yeah, I think the foam gonna crush.

Now compare that with an empty helmet (ok, no snide remarks... yeah I mean you)
Average helmet maybe 3 lbs.
So 20 times 3 = 60 lbs
This is distributed over an approximate 6" x 6" area
60 times 36 (let's say 40) = 2400 psi
I think the impact resistane of styrofoam is something like 8,000 psi... depends on the foam.
2400 << 8000, not going to crush.

OK that's a perfect world.
reality, the helmet going to deflect and push on the foam.  The foam having nothing behind it will deflect too.  So it comes down to how much does the helmet deflect and how stiff is the foam.  If you're worried about this, think about how much pressure you apply to put the helmet it on and how much you crush the foam every time.   Shocked

forgetaboutit.




You see that? Huhh? You SEEE that? Thats how I qualify that statement! & Im Danged glad someone else did it, cuz I wasnt gonna waste my time..

OHH,, & dont read that 1st sentence like Im really being mean,, Im just goofin off..


OHH,, & Thanks Versy.
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CalisOsin
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #16 - 08/10/11 at 11:09:30
 
That's some fancy math. But the reality of it is, I've seen the tests, and opened up a helmet or two before with the guys at the shop. I'm not saying that I agree that you need to replace your helmet after a 3 ft drop. I'm just saying that it will compress the foam (however little). I can't prove it mathematically, I can only tell you I've seen it.

Vers - I appreciate the time you spent explaining that.
Justin - Don't worry, I read the first sentence and my feathers still aren't ruffled. I've been around enough to know that most of us here just have our own sense of humor but are rarely malicious.  Grin
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Johansson
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #17 - 08/10/11 at 17:33:33
 
I think I read somewhere, on the snell site, maybe on the dot site, that helmets must be able to sustain a drop of 3 maybe 5 feet onto concrete without the helmet losing any ability to protect the wearer.

I was once a student of physics. Or, rather, I went to physics class a lot when I was in college. Actually, I was a physics major, transfered to another university, changed from nuclear to antenna, lost interest after my junior year, became an acountant, now I am a welder, I love it when the architect or engineer comes out and starts throwing math my way,, I can send most of them crawling back to their office.

Anyway, at 1.5 feet and say maybe 2 or 3 pounds,,,thats about 4.5 ftlbs of energy. When the helmet hits the ground it has about 4.5 ftlbs of energy it needs to dissapate. I don't know, as I am not associated with any helmet testing organization, how long it takes the helmet to come to a stop from the time of ground contact until the energy is dissapated.

On a low energy impact, let us assume, that the impact time is about .001 seconds.

4.5 ftlbs/.001 = 4500 ftlbs/sec

That is a pretty big number, might be a tenth of a second, about 450 ftlbs/sec, still a pretty big number. About a horse power, ,,,

The foam in a helmet is not protecting by compression, it protects by absorbing the energy of the impact itself.

A shock wave of energy, a fairly high energy wave, has been generated by the impact.
The foam has elastic bonds, the shock wave breaks these bonds, dissipating the energy within the helmet, before the energy can be transmitted to your skull.

High energy impacts will destroy the foam, the helmet is designed to do this one time.

Check with the company that rated your helmet for the answer to your question.  

Yea, I wear a helmet, always,, the energy levels from head to concrete impacts is on the order of several magnitudes larger than a 1.5 foot drop, and helmets are designed to absorb a tremendous amount of this energy.
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arteacher
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #18 - 08/10/11 at 18:45:44
 
"The foam in a helmet is not protecting by compression, it protects by absorbing the energy of the impact itself."
Not so: The foam in the helmet protects your head by allowing your head to decelerate gradually by compressing the foam when the helmet contacts something and stops, or slows to a stop quickly. It acts as a cushion. It is the shell of the helmet that protects against the impact.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #19 - 08/10/11 at 20:12:06
 
Compressing the foam = allowing the foam to absorb the impact, like crumple zones on a car.
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #20 - 08/11/11 at 03:11:30
 
From Snell
l
http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aDroppedHelmet

Helmets work like a brake or shock absorber.  During a fall or crash, a head is traveling at a certain speed. Since the head has weight and is moving, there is a certain amount of energy associated with the moving head. When the helmet along with the accompanying head impacts an unyielding object, a rock, a wall, a curb or the ground, the hard shell starts by taking the energy generated by the falling helmet (head) and spreads it over a larger portion of the helmet, specifically, the internal foam liner. The foam liner then starts to crush and break which uses up a lot of the energy, keeping it from reaching the head inside.  Depending on how fast the head is traveling, and how big, heavy and immovable the object is, the faster the head slows down, and the more energy is present. In short, everything slows down really quickly. A helmet will effectively reduce the speed of the head by breaking and crushing which reduces the amount of energy transferred to the brain. The whole process take only milliseconds to turn a potentially lethal blow into a survivable one

The key here,  "crush and break"

Read the top paragragh on the Snell link, looks like the helmet in question should be undamaged and safe to wear.
 
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #21 - 08/11/11 at 10:17:03
 
Johansson wrote on 08/11/11 at 03:11:30:
From Snell
- Since the head has weight and is moving,...
- associated with the moving head....
- along with the accompanying head...
- generated by the falling helmet (head)...
- reaching the head inside....
- Depending on how fast the head is traveling,...
- the faster the head slows down,...
- the speed of the head...  


All this talk of "the head"....  kinda' makes me uncomfortable... Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #22 - 08/11/11 at 11:46:31
 
Serowbot wrote on 08/11/11 at 10:17:03:
Johansson wrote on 08/11/11 at 03:11:30:
From Snell
- Since the head has weight and is moving,...
- associated with the moving head....
- along with the accompanying head...
- generated by the falling helmet (head)...
- reaching the head inside....
- Depending on how fast the head is traveling,...
- the faster the head slows down,...
- the speed of the head...  


All this talk of "the head"....  kinda' makes me uncomfortable... Huh...


Sounds like you need a new "helmet"...   Cool
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kimchris1
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #23 - 08/11/11 at 18:38:38
 
Myself, I wouldn't replace it.
From that distance, a little
drop is nothing like slamming your head
down on the pavement.  Now if you
were riding and went down, hitting your
the helmet (head) against the pavement,
then yes I would. In fact I did..
I slammed so hard my shielf flew off. Helmet
was replaced before I ever rode the bike again.
I never had any doubts about replacing it.
Then again, your helmet, your choice to whether
you replace it or not..
You need to feel comfortable that your helmet is
going to do the job, if it is ever needed to do.
Hopefully that never happens to you. Smiley kim
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #24 - 08/11/11 at 19:50:28
 
When in doubt, throw it out! But to be honest, your situation sounds like a scratch rather than damage to the structural integrity .
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Re: Dropped Helmet from Helmet Lock...
Reply #25 - 08/12/11 at 19:44:31
 
mine fell off the handle bars, onto the black top, bounced, and then rolled 3 times.. should i get a new one?? Fulmer D5
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