SuzukiSavage.com - Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??

AlphaBarney

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Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
07/22/11 at 09:41:31

Let me say hi to everyone first. I've been lurching around the site soaking up as much info as I can. Now I've got my own question.
I recently bought an 05 S40 with ~5000mi on her. The first thing I did was get the Clymer manual and go through the regular maintenance that I could do for the 5000mi interval, including the oil and filter. Which brings me to my question.
The PO had been using a 20W50 conventional oil, and I noticed on my oil cap that 10W40 was the recommended weight, so I switched to that (Valvoline 10W40 4-stroke oil). I've put about 611 miles on it since changing the oil and filter and am starting to hear some noises from the engine. The noises seem to be rhythmic with the time of the stroke/piston, but isn't consistent. I seem to be hearing it mainly around 45-50mph, in 5th gear. Don't hear it when idling, cant hear it when >55-60mph because of wind noise and normal thumping.
Am new to motorcycles, she's my first, but don't want to have to bring it into the shop. One of the reasons I chose the S40 was because it was supposed to be pretty easy to do most of the maintenance myself and a great overall starter bike. I tried to find a thread on it around here, but couldn't really get one, and am lost.
I am wondering if I confused the engine by changing oil weight (same brand/type as PO), or if maybe the 10W40 is too thin and/or breaking down. It has been upper 90's-low 100's here in Raleigh, NC
Any thoughts?
I was going to just change the oil back to 20W50 to get a thicker coating for the rest of the summer, but I wanted to check here first because I know changing weights often is bad for the engine.

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Serowbot

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #1 - 07/22/11 at 09:49:59

She'll be a little noisier in the heat,... that's normal for a big air-cooled thumper... air-cooled bikes have looser tolerances to account for heat expansion,... thinner cylinder walls/no water jacket to absorb noise,... and, of coarse we have big valves... all add up to more noise...

10w-40 is fine,.. as long as it's not an "energy saving" blend...
20w-50 is good too... better in summer, but not really necessary...

I think you're fine... I used Valvoline 10w-40 for years... past couple,I switched to Shell Rotella T 15w-40 diesel oil...
Any good quality, name brand oil is good... main thing is change it regularly. I go 2500 to 3k miles...

Welcome to the site... Wink

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AlphaBarney

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #2 - 07/22/11 at 10:05:19

Thanks Sero. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't tearing apart piston rings or under-lubricating the engine. And NO! not the energy saving stuff read a lot about that stuff.
I guess this weekend I can do some other work on her then. I do still need to pull the spark plug and check that. When I bought her I hadn't heard any backfires at all, but when I pulled the air filter when I got the manual I found out why-it may have been a teensy-bit dirty causing it to run rich...plug was black. Changed the air filter and plug and she's been running lean and popping on decel since. I know it's common I just have to get the stones to pull the idle mixture cap and make the adjustments mentioned around here.
I read somewhere that running too lean can actually burn holes into the piston head...could that be a problem if I don't adjust the air/fuel mix? Like I said, she is straight up stock in every way right now.

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spacepirates

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #3 - 07/22/11 at 10:11:54

Perhaps you would describe the noise as a "ticking" kind of sound? -- that would be the valves. they make noise. quite a bit. especially when it is hot. Check your Clymer/Owner's manual on when to adjust the valves (7500mi seems to pop into my head, but i'm not sure).

Don't sweat it, ticking isn't bad, and if you search for it (ticking, valves, noise, whatever) you'll find a bunch of information on it. so much information on it, that some people get worried when they don't hear it!

If the bike runs well and seems to behave like a bike should (good throttle response, no lack of power, etc) then you're good to go.

Oil is a sensitive topic around here. Everyone has their own views on what you should run, why that weight/brand/type is the best, and why the others are sludge. For example, I switched to Rotella T6 5W-40 mostly for cold weather starting (though the effect is arguable). Sticking with the recommended weight is a good solid idea, and i suppose in theory it is possible that the heavier weight oil was masking some sounds, but that doesn't mean they are bad. Pick an oil that is within your budget that you (and i do mean YOU, not some random opinionated guy) have faith in and stick with it.

You've got a good bike and a good forum. With a little bit of guidance and a little TLC, you can do all the maintenance on your bike and run that odometer sky high for a long time to come.

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spacepirates

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #4 - 07/22/11 at 10:16:46

AlphaBarney wrote on 07/22/11 at 10:05:19:

Thanks Sero. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't tearing apart piston rings or under-lubricating the engine. And NO! not the energy saving stuff read a lot about that stuff.
I guess this weekend I can do some other work on her then. I do still need to pull the spark plug and check that. When I bought her I hadn't heard any backfires at all, but when I pulled the air filter when I got the manual I found out why-it may have been a teensy-bit dirty causing it to run rich...plug was black. Changed the air filter and plug and she's been running lean and popping on decel since. I know it's common I just have to get the stones to pull the idle mixture cap and make the adjustments mentioned around here.
I read somewhere that running too lean can actually burn holes into the piston head...could that be a problem if I don't adjust the air/fuel mix? Like I said, she is straight up stock in every way right now.

Lean can be damaging, but it'd have to be a lot leaner than what stock allows and run for a long time. the idle mixture plug isn't anything to be scared of, just go slow and remember that brass is soft.

if you really are scared (about the plug or about anything else), you can always call out for help. people on this forum are mighty nice, and if someone is within decent riding distance, they'll probably be happy to lend a hand.

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Boofer

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #5 - 07/22/11 at 11:12:49

I have a trick when the engine seems a little loud. I raise my face shield halfway, lean closely over the tank, and hear that quiet sewing machine/Briggs & Stratton sound. Just don't get hypnotized and forget to look up or you will have other issues. I run Rotella, which is a little quieter than the Castrol imo, but you need to get used to how your engine sounds. And I think we all hate running when it's over 95 degrees and the oil looks like colored water. But it works with any good oil. Anybody remember the valve noise in the old 235 six cylinder Chevy motors? That's how you knew it was running.

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #6 - 07/22/11 at 11:38:41

AlphaBarney wrote on 07/22/11 at 09:41:31:

. The noises seem to be rhythmic with the time of the stroke/piston, but isn't consistent. I seem to be hearing it mainly around 45-50mph, in 5th gear. Don't hear it when idling, cant hear it when >55-60mph because of wind noise and normal thumping.

How does it sound? Same sound only louder? ticking? or knocking?

Even with only 5k miles on it, I'd reccomend checking the cam chain. Anyone with a new2them bike should. PO's have many times handed a maitenance issue to a newb who ignored it and then it blew up.

As far as oil goes, 10w40 won't break down unless it gets really hot. Hot as in can't keep your feet on the pegs w/o burning your knees. But if it makes the noise go away, by all means feel free to use it. Valvoline is good stuff whatever weight you use. The advantage of the 10w40 is better head cooling. 20w50 is good for the crank bearings.

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AlphaBarney

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #7 - 07/22/11 at 13:01:21

Thanks everyone. I have tried the face shield up trick, and leaning down.

Verslagen, I would best describe it as a random rubbing/scraping noise, somewhat high pitched that comes and goes at that speed. I was confusing it for wind noise for a little until I really listened to it and put it with the stroke rhythm. I should check the valves anyway, so while I have it apart maybe I'll look at the cam chain too.

I'll look at the manual today. I don't have that special tool to get the crankcase inspection cover off, the manual suggests a wide tip screwdriver, any home-made alternatives that anyone has found to work well?

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AlphaBarney Full Member Offline Were you born to resist, or be abused? Posts: 121 Raleigh, NC Gender:	Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Reply #8 - 07/22/11 at 13:07:31 I guess I should also inform, no power loss, still have great throttle response, putts around great at 50-60mph without thought, vibration of the bike starts at about 65mph-70mph, but still runs well. And gas mileage is hold well between 50-54mpg: city-highway. Maybe I'm just babying her, I dunno.
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BurnPgh

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #9 - 07/22/11 at 13:56:49

church key bottle opener and a screwdriver. Old brake pad and a pair of vise grips. Claw hammer - if its short enough you can get the claws in the groove and turn the hammer like a breaker bar. I highly suggest investing in the timing insection cover off a suzuki vs800. 'bout $10. It takes a 10mm allen key instead of a "special tool"/whatchacanjerryrig. I kept the original cover until rather recently and just effed it up more and more every time i rigged a way to get it off. got tired of it. No hassle now.

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #10 - 07/22/11 at 15:00:35

BurnPgh wrote on 07/22/11 at 13:56:49:

church key bottle opener and a screwdriver. Old brake pad and a pair of vise grips. Claw hammer - if its short enough you can get the claws in the groove and turn the hammer like a breaker bar. I highly suggest investing in the timing insection cover off a suzuki vs800. 'bout $10. It takes a 10mm allen key instead of a "special tool"/whatchacanjerryrig. I kept the original cover until rather recently and just effed it up more and more every time i rigged a way to get it off. got tired of it. No hassle now.

Huh? Sounds interesting but I dont understand! Undecided

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BrettKeiselsbeard Full Member Offline 2007 S-40, 2003 GZ250 Posts: 146 Sebastian Fl Gender:	Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Reply #11 - 07/22/11 at 16:00:59 I used a circular spark plug gapper and large vise grips to remove the inspection cover. Easy peasy. Any port in a storm.
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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #12 - 07/22/11 at 16:43:27

If you can try to use an oil design for motorcycles and specially for wet clutch, motorcycle oils (and Harley oils) are different than car engine oils, since the same oil is lubricating engine, transmission and clutch they have different aditives that work better than regular engine oil that can cause your tranmission parts and clutch plates to wore out faster than what they should or clutch slip

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #13 - 07/22/11 at 17:01:27

AlphaBarney wrote on 07/22/11 at 13:01:21:

Verslagen, I would best describe it as a random rubbing/scraping noise, somewhat high pitched that comes and goes at that speed. I was confusing it for wind noise for a little until I really listened to it and put it with the stroke rhythm.

... I don't have that special tool to get the crankcase inspection cover off, the manual suggests a wide tip screwdriver, any home-made alternatives that anyone has found to work well?

1... What you describe could be the speedo bezel rattle... try pressing your thumb against the bottom edge of the mount and pushing slightly,... if the noise stops, there's an easy fix in the Tech section...
.... could also be the the drive belt... it can make all kinds of tricky noises... pull in the clutch while you are hearing it, and rev the engine a couple of times... if the sound doesn't go up and down with the engine, it's probably the belt... again,.. a million fixes in the Tech section...
These two things account for 80% of noises. the other one is the headlight bezel...

2... timing cover... next time you do front brake pads,... save the old plates... they work great in that slot... 'till then, a big fat washer in a vise grip does the job too...

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Grand Strand

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Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues??
Reply #14 - 07/22/11 at 18:19:38

Grand Strand wrote on 07/22/11 at 15:00:35:

BurnPgh wrote on 07/22/11 at 13:56:49:

church key bottle opener and a screwdriver. Old brake pad and a pair of vise grips. Claw hammer - if its short enough you can get the claws in the groove and turn the hammer like a breaker bar. I highly suggest investing in the timing insection cover off a suzuki vs800. 'bout $10. It takes a 10mm allen key instead of a "special tool"/whatchacanjerryrig. I kept the original cover until rather recently and just effed it up more and more every time i rigged a way to get it off. got tired of it. No hassle now.

Huh? Sounds interesting but I dont understand! Undecided

I don't have that special tool to get the crankcase inspection cover off, the manual suggests a wide tip screwdriver, any home-made alternatives that anyone has found to work well?

Got it. It helps when you read! Duh... Smiley

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