SuzukiSavage.com - Political/economic question

Midnightrider

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #15 - 07/17/11 at 09:55:04

Justin some of your conspiracy theories I'm not too sure about, but I believe your "Dumbing Down Of America" is dead on it. If anyone doesnt believe it just turn on the TV and try to find something intelligent to watch. The Housewives Of New Jersey, give me a friggin break. How could anyone with half a brain sit through a bunch of stupid made up horse manure like that show, and there's plenty more just as bad or worse. Back to the subject most farm and restaraunt owners get around the minimum wage law. Everyone knows there's migrant farm workers that will work for whatever they can get. Its actually legal for a restaraunt owner to pay waitresses and bartenders below minimum wage because they are expected to be tipped. Look at all the politicians with illegal maids and groundskeepers. Ya think they get minimum wage? The minimum wage law only works with corporations afraid of being sued.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #16 - 07/17/11 at 16:08:38

Gloria Steinem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gloria Steinem at a news conference, Women's Action Alliance, January 12, 1972 ... she served as director of the secretly CIA-funded Independent Research ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Steinem - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
Gloria Steinem: How the CIA Used Feminism to Destabilize Society

Since writing these words last week, I have discovered that before she became a feminist leader, Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA spying on Marxist ...

www.jesus-is-savior.com/ Evils%20in%20America/ Feminism/ gloria_steinem-feminism.htm - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
What Gloria Steinem, Henry Kissinger Have in Common: CIA Pay ...

Feb 22, 2008 ... The front organization was one of the earliest and most trusted weapons in the psychological Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

www.bloomberg.com/ apps/ news?pid=newsarchive &sid=a1M9EAly2hog &refer=home - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
savethemales.ca - How Gloria Steinem's CIA Role Was Censored

Jun 17, 2010 ... (Like Barack Obama, Feminist Gloria Steinem is a CIA asset tasked with subverting the United States in the interests of Illuminati banker ...

www.henrymakow.com/inside_the_cia_with_gloria_ste.html - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
Gloria Steinem - How The CIA Used Feminism To Destabilize Society

Since writing these words last week, I have discovered that before she became a feminist leader, Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA spying on Marxist ...

www.rense.com/general21/hw.htm - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
portland imc - 2005.02.06 - Feminist Gloria Steinem of the CIA ...

Feb 6, 2005 ... Frank jokes about the role of fellow delegate Gloria Steinem, whom he describes as running around at nightclubs set up by the CIA in ...

portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/02/310075.shtml - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
Gloria Steinem - How The CIA Used Feminism To Destabilize Society ...

Mar 19, 2002 ... March 19, 2002. "In the 1960´s, the elite media invented second-wave feminism as part of the elite agenda to dismantle civilization and ...

www.educate-yourself.org/cn/makowfeminismsteinemandcia19mar02.shtml - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
Dailymotion - Gloria Steinem: How CIA Used Feminism to Destabilize ...

Jun 19, 2009 ... http://tcrnews2.com/Steinem_CIA.html Feminism exposed part the New World Order Agenda.

www.dailymotion.com/ video/ x9mikt_gloria-steinem-how-cia-used-feminis_webcam - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
BLACK FEMINISM, THE CIA AND GLORIA STEINEM. (Fwd: For you that ...

FACT: One of Gloria Steinem's first missions for the CIA was to manipulate the student movement (most people are STILL unaware that the National Student ...

rah.posterous.com/black-feminism-the-cia-and-gloria-steinem-fwd - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
YouTube - Gloria Steinem Exposed: Feminist Spy for The CIA!‏

Aug 20, 2010 ... Not many people know that Feminist media darling, Gloria Steinem, was in fact working for the CIA - or that Ms. Magazine was a CIA funded ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ2qxGAKIu4 - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight

Its a game,,
Ask yourself this question,, How is it that a woman, ( remember that glass ceiling thing here) who had nothing to say that was in accordance with society as it was at the time, was given microphones & a podium & interviews in magazines & newspapers, to tell the women of America to throw off their shackles.. WHO decided what she was saying was what the masses needed to hear & provided the chanels to make it happen?
Is there anything you wish you could tell all of America? Is there anyone out there who would make it happen for YOU??
Think about it, dont just dismiss that,, thats a very important & revealing question..

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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tcreeley

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #17 - 07/17/11 at 19:24:20

If you are a neocon capitalist with a global trade agenda then you want open markets and cheap labor. It doesn't matter where the labor is, it is always cheaper to move the factory.
That's what happened to the US. Last I heard china paid .35 per hour. Maybe they are up to .50 per hour now. They like free prison labor too.
Our hardworking minimum wage guy who is at the poverty level can't compete with .50 an hour. I guess the answer is to lower the minimum wage to .50 an hour! (Work a 1/2 hour to get enough to buy a gum ball out of the machine.)

China has the factories now (India too). We sent the machinery over. Until we regain an industrial base, we are headed for 3rd world status. But we never will get back what we gave away. Bankers, owners, investors are doing ok. Money knows no boundaries. In time the Asians will take that over too as our last sources of revenue dry up.

You have to be smart to connect the dots. You have to understand. Have you noticed the attacks on education? Dismantle the schools and you have an uneducated workforce. They won't ask for high wages. They will work for nothing.

The dumbing down of America has a purpose. TV, booze, drugs, die young (no SS payments), and too uneducated to know better. A work force that will work for peanuts + long hours- just to have a job.

(This is the reason why we have such a legal high immigration rate. -people willing to work for nothing.) Union busting - same reason.

It is awful hard to fight them. They have us working people fighting our selves. We are being sold a ton of lies.

Bite the bullet time. Promote US made (no sales in the US unless it is 51% American made.) Import tariffs. The bank boys will fight this. Business will fight this, but in time as factories produce here, the wages will pump money into the economy and things will pick up.

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tcreeley

it is what it is

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #18 - 07/17/11 at 21:00:41

Want more on the Dumbing Don of America?

There is supposed to be a FREE online book, by Charlotte Izerbyt ( pronounced Izzer Bee,,) She was 2nd in command of the dept Of education or something like that, back in the 60s or 70s,, I cant remember now,, but she had access to info you & I didnt,,

The failure of american education,, let me ask you a question..

You HAD an education system that wa working, You TWEAKED it to "make it better",, the end result was a disappointment,

Now,

You Ask for more $$$ to Tweak some more

Or

You go back to how it was before you started tweaking.

They NEVER went back to what it was before they started trying 'To make it better" & its steadily gotten worse,

Accident? If you believe that, youre lacking in your thinking skills.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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tcreeley Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 224	Re: Political/economic question Reply #19 - 07/18/11 at 08:29:00 Neil Bush had a company whose business it was to "save" failing schools when No Child Left Behind was signed into law that labelled failing schools! -making some money on the side here!
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buttgoat1

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #20 - 07/18/11 at 09:21:10

I think the big picture is what kind of jobs come along with minimum wage. Low productive menial jobs. These are not the kind of jobs to support a family on, these are what teenagers are supposed to learn how to show up, perform, get experience, and learn how to better themselves, not enable them to stay at a low level.

I know there are very educated and productive people working low wage jobs just to survive short term, but that does not justify raising it.

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LostArtist

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #21 - 07/18/11 at 10:36:55

This:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/16/11 at 10:58:25:

but once an unbridled economy creates more jobs, then employers will be bidding against each other for labor. When everyone who wants a job has one, there isnt a big labor pool to draw from, so employers have to toss out more $$ to lure people in,

is the fatal flaw in your argument. and unbridled economy will not happen with all the lobbies and what not with corruption in just your local government let alone Washington DC. Also, when everyone who wants a job has one??? some people don't want jobs, but they work anyway, some of them are darn good at what they do too and make a lot more than the people who want that job do. work is not about wanting, it's about being paid. employers will always fight to get the cheapest labor possible.

also, I don't think an unbridled economy would create more jobs or raise income levels any even if was possible. there would be an increase in disabilities from dangerous jobs no longer regulated by the govt. there would be a lot of people moving around all the time cause one job in one place would pay more than the same job in another place (this already happens now anyway so immigration wouldn't just be a national border control thing anymore) there would be a period of time short or long while the economy balances out, some jobs would start paying drastically less reducing that area's local economy.

anyway there's a lot of negatives to eliminating the minimum wage, and it's rough to argue to raise it, cause of all the other arguments here as well. the idea the minimum wage is an acceptable wage for middle class or even lower class americans is just stupid though, working 40 hours a week on minimum wage won't help you live, but if minimum wage was above wellfare . . .

there's no argument that wages and salaries for the lower 98% of american's need to increase but giving the top 2% a tax break isn't going to work, and there's 30 years of evidence to support that.

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LostArtist

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #22 - 07/18/11 at 10:40:03

buttgoat1 wrote on 07/18/11 at 09:21:10:

I think the big picture is what kind of jobs come along with minimum wage. Low productive menial jobs. These are not the kind of jobs to support a family on, these are what teenagers are supposed to learn how to show up, perform, get experience, and learn how to better themselves, not enable them to stay at a low level.

I know there are very educated and productive people working low wage jobs just to survive short term, but that does not justify raising it.

and yet, with the globalization that's been happening for the last 20 years, this is what we get, educated productive people working low wage jobs, under-employed. it wasn't the working class that asked for their jobs to be shipped over seas. . .

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Political/economic question Reply #23 - 07/18/11 at 11:06:55 If you have no minimum wage there will be more people on welfare,I think there are to many already.
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buttgoat1

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #24 - 07/18/11 at 12:26:08

LostArtist wrote on 07/18/11 at 10:40:03:

buttgoat1 wrote on 07/18/11 at 09:21:10:

I think the big picture is what kind of jobs come along with minimum wage. Low productive menial jobs. These are not the kind of jobs to support a family on, these are what teenagers are supposed to learn how to show up, perform, get experience, and learn how to better themselves, not enable them to stay at a low level.

I know there are very educated and productive people working low wage jobs just to survive short term, but that does not justify raising it.

and yet, with the globalization that's been happening for the last 20 years, this is what we get, educated productive people working low wage jobs, under-employed. it wasn't the working class that asked for their jobs to be shipped over seas. . .

No, the working class didn't ask for it, but they helped.
there is a continual movement within companies to cut costs and stay competitive, that is nature of business. Most businesses would prefer to stay here in the US, but everyday gubmint regulations get more onerous, EPA regs will drive up electricity costs, Unions demand more.
Even GE and GM, both recipients of bailout and stimulous money, are building plants overseas, and the Won parades them around as a success????

Heck, even here we have the most pro union supportes bashing any person who exercises their free choice to buy a Harley, as they gloat about their reasonablly priced Savage. They can't see the relation between a higher priced union made in the US model, but yet still hypocritically spout such short sighted nonsense.

Consumers make choices every day with their wallet, and businesses have to accept that challenge to survive. Workers need to be a partner in it instead of being a hindrance. Boeing just got slammed by the labor relations board for expanding in a non-union plant, not cutting union jobs, just expanding elsewhere. The part of the story you don't hear very looudly is that the SC non union plant workers voted to decertify their union representation because the union put its own welfare ahead of the workers they supposedly represented. I bet Boeing will expand overseas next time, maybe Canada. Canada btw is recovering better than US because othe the current hostile US business administration. Apparently actually developing oil resources employs people and generates revenue. Too bad the dipsticks in DC are doing their darndest to cut our energy throats here at home.
BTW, lower fuel costs would leave more money to pay workers.
I suggest you call your representatives, remember that the next time you vote.

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LostArtist

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #25 - 07/18/11 at 12:45:23

workers as a partner?? isn't that what unions are trying to do, like in an idealized world of course not the corrupt reality we actually live in. CEO's salaries have grown 500% or something crazy while middle class salaries have stagnated. . . so workers want to be a partner but aren't going to do everything for nothing in return. . .

I just don't see many CEO's actually respecting their work force financially, just trying to minimize the cost of their workforce.

what I'll remember the next time I vote is that we've been cutting income taxes for the top earners for 30 years and nothing is growing in the middle class . . . hard to keep buying that BS, yet they keep trying to sell it

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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: Political/economic question Reply #26 - 07/18/11 at 12:56:11 Smart companies have embraced profit sharing for all employees. Such companies enjoy a higher level of productivity.
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buttgoat1

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #27 - 07/18/11 at 13:09:51

LostArtist wrote on 07/18/11 at 12:45:23:

workers as a partner?? isn't that what unions are trying to do, like in an idealized world of course not the corrupt reality we actually live in. CEO's salaries have grown 500% or something crazy while middle class salaries have stagnated. . . so workers want to be a partner but aren't going to do everything for nothing in return. . .

I just don't see many CEO's actually respecting their work force financially, just trying to minimize the cost of their workforce.

what I'll remember the next time I vote is that we've been cutting income taxes for the top earners for 30 years and nothing is growing in the middle class . . . hard to keep buying that BS, yet they keep trying to sell it

and sweetheart deals for crony companies like GM, GE, bogus "green" companies help you how?
Unions spending millions of dollars to buy gubmint officials does what for you?

Right now, if you had a great idea for a new product, you would have an infentisimal chance to actually get it to market because of onerous enviromental, workplace, insurance, energy, etc regulations and restrictions. How does that help you?

Excessive requirements just further entrench the established businesses, they will do what they have to do to survive.

Your desirte for fairness only make the strong stronger and weak weaker.

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LostArtist

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Re: Political/economic question
Reply #28 - 07/18/11 at 13:23:30

buttgoat1 wrote on 07/18/11 at 13:09:51:

LostArtist wrote on 07/18/11 at 12:45:23:

workers as a partner?? isn't that what unions are trying to do, like in an idealized world of course not the corrupt reality we actually live in. CEO's salaries have grown 500% or something crazy while middle class salaries have stagnated. . . so workers want to be a partner but aren't going to do everything for nothing in return. . .

I just don't see many CEO's actually respecting their work force financially, just trying to minimize the cost of their workforce.

what I'll remember the next time I vote is that we've been cutting income taxes for the top earners for 30 years and nothing is growing in the middle class . . . hard to keep buying that BS, yet they keep trying to sell it

and sweetheart deals for crony companies like GM, GE, bogus "green" companies help you how?
Unions spending millions of dollars to buy gubmint officials does what for you?

Right now, if you had a great idea for a new product, you would have an infentisimal chance to actually get it to market because of onerous enviromental, workplace, insurance, energy, etc regulations and restrictions. How does that help you?

Excessive requirements just further entrench the established businesses, they will do what they have to do to survive.

Your desirte for fairness only make the strong stronger and weak weaker.

"onerous enviromental, workplace, insurance, energy, etc regulations and restrictions. How does that help you?"

what about onerous patent laws, and sweetheart deals with good old boys? that helps how??

even if you got a new product to market the established businesses already have 1000's of tricks to get you to go out of business, this is how it's been for centuries.
this has nothing to to with paying employees more or growing the middle class

corporations also spend billions on lobbying congress and politicians

the focus needs to be on growing the middle class, and again, giving tax cuts to the higher earners doesn't seem to be working

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buttgoat1 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1042	Re: Political/economic question Reply #29 - 07/18/11 at 14:59:20 one thing I know, is the more government interference you have the more things get screwed up.
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