Edited so magicninja's panties might unwad some.

Boule’tard wrote on 07/08/11 at 17:12:10:



Here here!!!   (or is it hear hear?)

I never had any trouble at all as a musician, 4 piece band, using regular foam ear plugs.  But if you find it distracting that the plugs reduce some frequencies more than others (i.e. too bassy) they also make musician's plugs that reduce the volume evenly across the board.  

There is no good reason to not protect your ears.  I guess I'll shut up now, but DANG if I could only go back and warn myself..... ....can't.... ...no deals.

Only mild pruning needed here ---- points are well stated


II. THERE IS REASON TO BELIEVE THE LOUDNESS OF SOUND IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR THAT LEADS TO HEARING LOSS

The problem of hearing loss due to noise or due to listening to music is generally considered to be exclusively a matter of how loud the sounds are, the assumption being that soft sounds are less dangerous and loud sounds more dangerous. In fact, many articles on the problem of hearing loss describe fixed volume levels beyond or within which any sounds will cause hearing impairment, and these limits are not very loud (one well-publicized claim is that exposure to sounds of 70 to 80 do for long periods of time will result in hearing damage, and the ranges of 90 to 110 do are described as dangerous even for short periods). While The Anstendig Institute does not doubt these findings, it has reason to believe that, at such comparatively moderate volume levels, the loudness of the sounds per se is not the main reason for hearing loss. The evidence we cite is that:

1) in The Anstendig Institute's own test-situations, we have been able to observe just the opposite result, i.e., greater hearing sensitivity after long sessions of listening to music that was within the stated volume ranges;

2) we know of other situations that produce the same effect of greater hearing sensitivity after people are subjected to even louder volume levels. For example: orchestras routinely use rehearsal rooms that are just big enough to house their 100 or so members, and we have never heard of anyone suffering hearing impairment from a good rehearsal. In fact, a phenomenon often happens whereby everyone is hearing MORE acutely after a first-class rehearsal. This is noticeable in the fact that, beforehand, when everyone has arrived and taken his seat, the ambient noises in the room are not noticed. But afterwards, and even during pauses later in the rehearsal, the ambient noise is annoyingly apparent. Suddenly everyone notices every little sound, most of which were present before the rehearsal. Obviously the hearing of those in the room has changed so that everyone is hearing louder due to the physical relaxation and acute concentration necessary in order to play their instruments. A heightened state of sensitivity has resulted and not a hearing loss, even though, under these conditions, sound pressure levels of well over 100 dB are common. I spent many summers rehearsing daily in orchestras and bands numbering well over 200 players in the Interlochen Bowl of the National Music Camp, Interlochen, Michigan. In spite of the enormous sound-pressure-levels, many of those musicians have grown up to be among the finest in the world, with excellent hearing.

Long before the present public awareness of the dangers of loud volume listening, The Anstendig Institute conducted test sessions in which long tapes of music having the same equalization characteristics were played. The listening was begun at a moderate volume level and the music was correctly equalized to sound natural at that level. The volume was then slowly increased until sound pressure levels of 100 dB to 115 dB occurred momentarily at climaxes. Each successive increase in volume was carefully re-equalized to retain the same natural sounding quality. At the end of these sessions, everyone present was invariably hearing louder and more perceptively. Room sounds, like the hum of the amplifier's power supply, the residual noise coming through the speakers, street noises, every tiniest movement by anyone in the room, were suddenly disturbingly loud whereas, before the session, no one noticed them. One could literally hear a pin drop. It was obvious to everyone that this was due the deeper state of relaxation of muscle-tensions their bodies had relaxed into while listening. That became clear when we disturbed the physical state we were in by getting up and doing other things that demanded the tensions of our usual bodily movements and reactions: some of the acuity of our hearing had been lost when we then returned to listening, but everyone noticed that they were still hearing louder than before we listened to the loud music.

The above examples should not be misunderstood as claiming that the dangers of loud music and loud noise have been exaggerated. The hearing losses that have been observed are very real and scientifically well documented, and there is no reason to doubt the audiologists' warning that the problem is reaching epidemic proportions. The above examples merely indicate that there is much more to the problem than currently indicated and that, at volume levels that are within known human tolerances (up to short term peaks of 110 dB to 115 dB--the threshold of pain is 140 dB) not ALL loud sounds are damaging. Some can, under the right conditions, be beneficial. But most people cannot adequately differentiate between dangerous and not-dangerous sounds, so it must be emphasized that one should, as a rule, avoid all unnecessarily loud sounds.

Obviously, music played by an orchestra in a rehearsal and the music used in The Anstendig Institute's tests differ greatly from the usual sounds that we are bombarded with in our everyday lives. Musical sounds are not merely noise. They are, in the case of the rehearsal room, relatively refined sounds produced live by those present in the room, whose bodies are vibrating in the same vibrational flow of the music they are playing. The recorded music used by the Institute has been screened by Mr. Anstendig, a trained orchestra conductor. Only music played in the most refined manner possible, both in its expressiveness and in its rhythmic flow, is used. Of utmost importance is the fact that the music is equalized by Mr. Anstendig so that it sounds natural and that the equalization is readjusted for every change in the overall volume level.

Our tests indicate that one can be hearing louder and more sensitively after relaxed listening at louder volume levels (85 to 100 dB, with momentary peaks above 100 dB) IF THE PERFORMANCE IS OF HIGHEST QUALITY, IF THE SOUND REPRODUCTION HAS BEEN CAREFULLY EQUALIZED WHILE LISTENING, AND IF THE LISTENER REMAINS RELAXED AFTERWARDS. This phenomenon is not, however, limited only to listening at loud volume levels. The same phenomenon of increased sensitivity can occur when listening to music at moderate levels. The Anstendig Institute also observes this in its more typical test sessions during which the music remains mostly within 60 to 80 dB volume levels, with peaks of about 90 to 95 dB.

The conclusion is that being subjected to 70-80 dB of noise is probably dangerous only because of the ERRATIC quality of the noise, not because of the volume level. Finest music at those volume levels would have the opposite effect.

This goes on into more sections and goes even deeper into it. Citing things like, "But because of the effect produced on our bodies, we strongly suspect that these types of less-than-impeccably performed recordings play the greatest role in hearing loss from listening to recordings, especially when the volume level stays below 100 dB. This supposition strongly supports our conclusion that, with low volume-level noise, it is the ERRATIC quality of the noise that is responsible for hearing damage."

And again...[A very possible effect is that the sounds and the other (usually mechanical) vibrations could be vibrating at rhythmic dissonance to each other, thereby causing ill-effects on one's hearing mechanism.

Based on reading this you get the point. They say it a bit better than I did but I remember reading this some time ago and found it interesting. My previous statement was that mid level dissonance  be more damaging than loud music that is harmonious. It gets a bit more indepth than that but I think it's obvious I didn't make this up.

Opinions vary, I tried ear plugs and they made everything muffled (go figure it did its job!).

Why did you take my statement to boofer and try and turn it into something mean or bad? I expressed I was sorry for her hearing loss but cited the fact that movies today have this effect. It's called Surround Sound. Even if you don't have it, pop a dvd in and set your tv or sound system to surround. The action will be quite loud but the voices will be low.

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/09/11 at 00:15:38:


fans? That's just weird lol. But makes sense, what a weird but interesting world we live in.

I remember once my guitarist and I got together to jam at my house. Hot summer day. I plugged into my lil Fender and started playing...everything had a tremelo effect but this amp only had reverb. Josh (the other guitarist) plugged in his little marshall and had the same effect. I realized my ceiling fan was on so I shut it off, no more tremelo effect!

And thanks.

If I was a young man again I would become an audiologist. I have a "traveling" lesson complete with sound bytes of what hearing loos sounds like,  and overheads regarding the levels at which teens listen to MP3 players. I measure the level at which they listen, then give the lesson, then set their players to a safe level, using an SPL meter. Some take it to heart, most don't.
Believe it or not the AVERAGE level at which they listen is 106 db. That is safe for about 15 min per day. I have also done dance supervision with my meter and measured spl's of 124 db, which is jet engine territory.
This is leading me to believe that almost all teens have permanent hearing loss already, and will have serious loss before they are 30 or 40.

Now, why did I take the trouble to fix this noise war thing up so it can continue unabated?

Because it is a good one and I want to play too !!!



Hey,  I am gonna put a poll up for the old geezers to answer because the young studs haven't gotten to the payback time yet and aren't getting the results of what they did to themselves yet.

Look at the poll and realize what we are all saying --- we did dumb shite to our hearing when we were young and immortal and the bill didn't come due until we were old and creaky.

And it pisses us off when we try to tell you and you testosterone back at us (which reminds us of yet another thing we miss and that pisses us off yet again)

Old farts are crotchety fer a reason ....