SuzukiSavage.com - Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?

bill67

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #15 - 06/14/11 at 11:03:22

Serowbot wrote on 06/14/11 at 10:46:27:

Oil color is not an indication of age or lubricity of the oil, or a dirty engine...
The black doesn't come from dirty deposits in the engine, it comes from blowback of carbon past the rings...
Some brands of oil will absorb this color faster than others, but that doesn't mean they lube any better... the carbons still there, whether it colors the oil or not, and it's fine enough that it doesn't really hurt anything...

Change the oil at regular intervals, (I do it at 2500 to 3000 miles) regardless of color...

+1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black.

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william h krumpen

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CalisOsin

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #16 - 06/14/11 at 11:07:01

bill67 wrote on 06/14/11 at 11:03:22:

Serowbot wrote on 06/14/11 at 10:46:27:

Oil color is not an indication of age or lubricity of the oil, or a dirty engine...
The black doesn't come from dirty deposits in the engine, it comes from blowback of carbon past the rings...
Some brands of oil will absorb this color faster than others, but that doesn't mean they lube any better... the carbons still there, whether it colors the oil or not, and it's fine enough that it doesn't really hurt anything...

Change the oil at regular intervals, (I do it at 2500 to 3000 miles) regardless of color...

+1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black.

ok, what kind of klotz? there's a lot!
http://www.klotzlube.com/products.asp?cat=4

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #17 - 06/14/11 at 11:15:24 bill67 wrote on 06/14/11 at 11:03:22: +1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black. What year is your bike and how many miles do you have on it?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #18 - 06/14/11 at 12:03:23 2006 2 1/2 blocks.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #19 - 06/14/11 at 12:21:07 bill67 wrote on 06/14/11 at 12:03:23: 2006 2 1/2 blocks. No bill, not the pedal car you ride to the mailbox. The boulevarde, the S40, big assed single cylinder. You know, the one you take out when your pretty neighbor is washing her car and you creak and groan bending over to check the oil.
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EJID Serious Thumper Offline Work to ride and ride to work. Posts: 1536 Pocatello, ID Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #20 - 06/14/11 at 12:27:32 Back to the original question...I noticed when I changed my exhaust that there was an exhaust leak at the header to muffler joint which blew all sorts of exhaust black soot on the oil window. In my case it just took a good scrubbing/wipedown of the area to clear things up nicely.
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prechermike

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #21 - 06/14/11 at 12:40:36

EJID wrote on 06/14/11 at 12:27:32:

Back to the original question...I noticed when I changed my exhaust that there was an exhaust leak at the header to muffler joint which blew all sorts of exhaust black soot on the oil window. In my case it just took a good scrubbing/wipedown of the area to clear things up nicely.

That's what I was thinking when I read the post. Wipe the glass and see what happens. But I didn't want to be a smart aleck. Honest! Roll Eyes

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #22 - 06/14/11 at 17:34:37

CalisOsin,

Bill's claims for Klotz have been the fuel for several oil wars, one of the last of which was a direct Savage engine comparison test between Klotz and Mobil 1 and Rotella Syn.

None of Bill's magical claims for Klotz panned out -- the red stuff turned black and had the same (or slightly worse) oil consumption.

What we did learn was weight of oil seems to matter a lot, more so than brand as a matter of fact.

20w50 weight oil runs hot as the higher viscosity wastes engine power just stirring it around. The heavy stuff can't suck heat out of your head as fast as lighter oils do, nor can it dump it out through the cases as fast.

Your point about very old engines "blowing by" a lot causing oil to get black is valid. I think we were talking about sucking up dirt from abused engines which is something Rotella will do that others (Mobil 1 and Klotz) are not so much good at.

Bill's punishment for losing the last oil war was to promise to NEVER make unsubstantiated claims for Klotz oil to a newbie ever again.

Bill, what data do you have to back up your claims, or are they more unsubstantiated nonsense all over again?

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photojoe FSO Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline I did warn you to brace yourself Posts: 1379 New Jersey Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #23 - 06/14/11 at 18:21:06 bill67 wrote on 06/14/11 at 12:03:23: 2006 2 1/2 blocks. Bill, you're getting close to oil change time
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bill67

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #24 - 06/14/11 at 19:09:53

CalisOsin wrote on 06/14/11 at 11:07:01:

bill67 wrote on 06/14/11 at 11:03:22:

Serowbot wrote on 06/14/11 at 10:46:27:

Oil color is not an indication of age or lubricity of the oil, or a dirty engine...
The black doesn't come from dirty deposits in the engine, it comes from blowback of carbon past the rings...
Some brands of oil will absorb this color faster than others, but that doesn't mean they lube any better... the carbons still there, whether it colors the oil or not, and it's fine enough that it doesn't really hurt anything...

Change the oil at regular intervals, (I do it at 2500 to 3000 miles) regardless of color...

+1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black.

ok, what kind of klotz? there's a lot!
http://www.klotzlube.com/products.asp?cat=4

The MX4 zero wear

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william h krumpen

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bill67

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #25 - 06/14/11 at 19:12:58

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 06/14/11 at 17:34:37:

CalisOsin,

Bill's claims for Klotz have been the fuel for several oil wars, one of the last of which was a direct Savage engine comparison test between Klotz and Mobil 1 and Rotella Syn.

None of Bill's magical claims for Klotz panned out -- the red stuff turned black and had the same (or slightly worse) oil consumption.

What we did learn was weight of oil seems to matter a lot, more so than brand as a matter of fact.

20w50 weight oil runs hot as the higher viscosity wastes engine power just stirring it around. The heavy stuff can't suck heat out of your head as fast as lighter oils do, nor can it dump it out through the cases as fast.

Your point about very old engines "blowing by" a lot causing oil to get black is valid. I think we were talking about sucking up dirt from abused engines which is something Rotella will do that others (Mobil 1 and Klotz) are not so much good at.

Bill's punishment for losing the last oil war was to promise to NEVER make unsubstantiated claims for Klotz oil to a newbie ever again.

Bill, what data do you have to back up your claims, or are they more unsubstantiated nonsense all over again?

Oldfellow you know none of Verys claims worked out I told you at the time the errors he was making that didn't make sense,You must have forgot.

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william h krumpen

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #26 - 06/14/11 at 19:13:41 photojoe FSO wrote on 06/14/11 at 18:21:06: bill67 wrote on 06/14/11 at 12:03:23: 2006 2 1/2 blocks. Bill, you're getting close to oil change time Just a block away.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #27 - 06/14/11 at 20:06:08 To throw 1 more log on the bill bond fire... I have 2 savages with about 45k miles each, both have used rotsyn mostly both have used Mobil1 20w50 for 1 month in the summer 1 has used klotz and amsoil for about 5 weeks in the summer guess which one needed rings after?
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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion?
Reply #28 - 06/14/11 at 21:00:55

I'll bite

the rest of you are jest too durn chicken

I bet the engine that got the oil switched around the most is the one that crapped out.

Why? Engines get used to one oil's film characteristics, then they want to act funny until they get used to the next oil's film characteristics. Example, my clutches always acted wonky during a change over until the second oil change of the new stuff.

Next, a question -- which oil will you use after you finish your break in?

All of it rolls into that one question -- you are the one who did the oil comparisons, you lived with it, you learned from it. Some of it isn't technical, it is gut interpretations of things you see as you go along.

Which oil goes into the new big bored out hot cammed engine as the oil of choice to protect your investment in money and time?

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Former Savage Owner

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Reply #29 - 06/14/11 at 21:37:43 rotdino is in there now, next is rotsyn. and when summer comes... I'll get around to the oil cooler project. I put the oil pressure gage in for the 1st week. and until it warmed up, idle produced 50 psi. then it dropped to 5ish.
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