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transmission problem (Read 608 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #15 - 06/07/11 at 18:15:10
 
serenity3743 wrote on 06/07/11 at 05:17:26:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/06/11 at 21:25:04:
Put it in gear & roll it. engin off & see what it sounds like.

The bike will roll while in gear with clutch engaged (lever out), and it makes a minor grinding or growling sound.




Then you need to find where that sound is coming from.. Id pull the guard off the front pulley & see whats in there.. Hopefuly the shaft is spinning in the pulley,,
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #16 - 06/07/11 at 21:01:54
 

I think he's got it all figured out fairly well,  Justin, as his choices are:

1) totally shafted and sheared off short,

2) totally spineless

3)  or if he is jest plain lucky he's jest got him a wallowed out hole in the center of his driven pulley.


Grin   Grin   Grin


Me, I have faith in Serenity and him having found option #4 -- the infamous something new and unexpected .....
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serenity3743
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #17 - 06/08/11 at 04:45:09
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/07/11 at 18:15:10:
serenity3743 wrote on 06/07/11 at 05:17:26:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/06/11 at 21:25:04:
Put it in gear & roll it. engin off & see what it sounds like.

The bike will roll while in gear with clutch engaged (lever out), and it makes a minor grinding or growling sound.




Then you need to find where that sound is coming from.. Id pull the guard off the front pulley & see whats in there.. Hopefuly the shaft is spinning in the pulley,,

Okay, I will check this option. Thanks, Justin.
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serenity3743
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #18 - 06/08/11 at 04:47:40
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 06/07/11 at 21:01:54:
Me, I have faith in Serenity and him having found option #4 -- the infamous something new and unexpected .....

I do my best to keep you old-timer mechanics thinking and pondering.  It's a good prevention for Alzheimer's!   Cheesy
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serenity3743
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #19 - 06/09/11 at 04:58:45
 
The prize for best long distance remote diagnostication goes to:

(DRUM ROLL PLEASE)
  Justin O Guy2 for his interpretation of the so-called transmission problem.  It turned out to be the shaft spinning inside the front pulley, presumably because the cogs that are supposed to prevent the pulley from slipping are worn down.  I won't know for sure if the wear is in the hole of the pulley or if it's the shaft itself until I get the pulley off. Which leads to my next question.

In lieu of starting a new thread, I need suggestions how to get the nut off the pulley, given the fact that there is not a readily available way to hold the shaft while turning the nut.  Would an air impact wrench do the job?  I think I can find one to borrow.
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BuckRYCA
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #20 - 06/09/11 at 06:17:44
 
Exactly the same symptoms occurred with my '96 Savage at 14K miles. The cause was that the nut securing the drive pulley to the transmission output shaft had become loose despite the lock washer being bent against one of the nut's flats. The free play of the cogged pulley against the splined shaft caused the cogs on the pulley to strip. I regard this as a design flaw, but at least the engineers specified a harder grade for the shaft than the pulley, so most of the damage was to the pulley.

When I replaced the pulley with a new one I applied Loctite 660 Retaining Compound to splines. This Loctite is specifically designed for shaft repairs. I torqued the nut to specs and bent the edge of a new lock washer against one of the nut's flats. That was 3K miles ago and all is holding.

I removed the nut with an electric impact wrench and put it on with a manual beam bar torque wrench.  To gain resistance put the bike in gear (I used 2nd), put a socket and breaker bar on the pulley nut, and determine which way the bike wants to go when you rotate the nut. Then block the rear wheel with a 4"x4" wooden block to prevent that motion.
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« Last Edit: 06/09/11 at 20:14:54 by BuckRYCA »  

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Re: transmission problem
Reply #21 - 06/09/11 at 06:39:53
 

Serenity's issue is that his pulley and shaft are completely stripped.

Stopping the pulley by wheel locking doesn't transmit very much resistance to the shaft any more, it is all stripped out and free wheeling.   The nut is on the shaft, but the nut is tightened against the pulley.

Since the pulley is free wheeling now, some wear has taken place on the pulley faces and perhaps the nut isn't going to be very tight now on anything once you get the washer flattened again?


==============================


If playing lock the wheel and zap the impact wrench doesn't work, then you will have to drop the right case and try to jam the clutch gears -- and then you will only get the resistance the clutch pack can support without slipping.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #22 - 06/09/11 at 06:43:40
 
Step 1, get the washer flattened out good. The nut shouldnt actually be torqued any more, since the pulley i spinning on the shaft freely, so, in 1st gear, the impact otta just spin it off,, seems to me you should be able to spin it off with a ratchet easy enough, but, ya never know till ya get in there.


& as for me bein some kinda long distance diagnostician,, I read others posts & they were leadin ya there, just in a different way,, Im no guru here,, plenty others are. We're all just glad the dang shaft isnt busted..
I wouldnt worry too much about the shaft being hurt, the pulley is much softer & even if the shaft is somewhat damaged, a new pulley & some good epoxy & you wont be in that engine..

I read OF's post,, & I see another option to popping a case. Might be a bad idea, IDK, but Id sure consider backing off the valve adjusters & setting the piston at 1/2 way down the stroke, to put the crank at 90* & filling the cylinder with oil.
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #23 - 06/09/11 at 07:07:07
 
serenity3743 wrote on 06/09/11 at 04:58:45:
The prize for best long distance remote diagnostication goes to:

(DRUM ROLL PLEASE)
  Justin O Guy2 for his interpretation of the so-called transmission problem.  It turned out to be the shaft spinning inside the front pulley, presumably because the cogs that are supposed to prevent the pulley from slipping are worn down.  I won't know for sure if the wear is in the hole of the pulley or if it's the shaft itself until I get the pulley off. Which leads to my next question.

In lieu of starting a new thread, I need suggestions how to get the nut off the pulley, given the fact that there is not a readily available way to hold the shaft while turning the nut.  Would an air impact wrench do the job?  I think I can find one to borrow.


Aiy, you splineless base terd you, I just knew you were flocked.
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #24 - 06/09/11 at 07:11:38
 
I just hope his shaft is ok...  
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serenity3743
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #25 - 06/09/11 at 08:21:05
 
babyhog wrote on 06/09/11 at 07:11:38:
I just hope his shaft is ok...  

Thanks, Babyhog, for your concern about my shaft..............
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serenity3743
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #26 - 06/09/11 at 08:21:47
 
verslagen1 wrote on 06/09/11 at 07:07:07:
serenity3743 wrote on 06/09/11 at 04:58:45:
The prize for best long distance remote diagnostication goes to:

(DRUM ROLL PLEASE)
  Justin O Guy2 for his interpretation of the so-called transmission problem.  It turned out to be the shaft spinning inside the front pulley, presumably because the cogs that are supposed to prevent the pulley from slipping are worn down.  I won't know for sure if the wear is in the hole of the pulley or if it's the shaft itself until I get the pulley off. Which leads to my next question.

In lieu of starting a new thread, I need suggestions how to get the nut off the pulley, given the fact that there is not a readily available way to hold the shaft while turning the nut.  Would an air impact wrench do the job?  I think I can find one to borrow.


Aiy, you splineless base terd you, I just knew you were flocked.

Grin Grin Grin
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #27 - 06/09/11 at 09:13:17
 
Oh, I see the problem right now is getting the pulley off. Well, the pulley is a goner, so do whatever you need to stop its rotation and use an impact wrench to get the nut off. You could drill two holes through the pulley and put in bolts and then use a bar against the bolts to prevent its rotation. Or weld on two bolts to do the same. Even a plumbers strap wrench around it might work.
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serenity3743
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #28 - 06/09/11 at 10:24:43
 
It's the shaft that has to be held, not the pulley. The pulley splines are worn down and the shaft spins separate from the pulley now.  I'm gonna try an air impact wrench on it either this evening or tomorrow.
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Re: transmission problem
Reply #29 - 06/09/11 at 16:01:18
 

Grab the pulley with whatever and try to tilt the pulley on the shaft to put whatever is left of your splines into a BIND condition.

Then zap it with impact wrench while holding the side cocked bind with whatever big pliers/pipe wrench/crescent wrench you have that can grab on to the sides of the pulley  (or mebbe even stick a wooden wedge in behind the pulley and the main case to get it to bind some).

Don't bust anything .....

Wink
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