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Weird idea, probably wouldn't work. (Read 430 times)
groupus
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #15 - 03/27/11 at 13:30:46
 
i've herd of guys using the air pumps meant to push air into a car's exhaust for emissions as mini turbos. they can even combine several in series.
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Re: Weird idea, probably will work.
Reply #16 - 03/27/11 at 13:39:22
 
Paladin. wrote on 03/27/11 at 13:02:38:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 03/27/11 at 10:24:16:
650 cc X 2,000 = air flow thru the carb at 2,000 rpm.....


Make that 6000 rpm, one inhale per two rotations = 3000 rpm, times 652cc = 1956000 cc/minute.  1 cu/ft = 28300cc.  At 6000 rpm we are inhaling 69 cfm.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999612
A $15 12v 80mm fan is puffing 84 cfm.  You will have positive pressure and will have some boost.

I have a lot of space over the airbox.  Hmmmm.....





I caint BLEEEVE I messed that up that bad. Thanks Paladin for straightening me out!


69 CFM at WFO aint that much,,, but, to boost the compression 15%, wouldnt we need something that pushed 15% over that 69 CFM?


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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #17 - 03/27/11 at 15:46:59
 
Yonuh, I grew up in the era of ram air and big pistons. It worked well, so I believe ram air or maybe a small supercharger might work. The turbo works better IMO with fuel injection. What you are proposing sounds more like an electric supercharger. One thing's for sure. The hp gained wouldn't hurt the lower end of the 650.  To get some good info just Google "Go Kart Turbos". Pricey.  Smiley
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Re: Weird idea, probably will work.
Reply #18 - 03/27/11 at 17:11:53
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 03/27/11 at 13:39:22:
Paladin. wrote on 03/27/11 at 13:02:38:
....A $15 12v 80mm fan is puffing 84 cfm.  You will have positive pressure and will have some boost....

... 69 CFM at WFO aint that much,,, but, to boost the compression 15%, wouldnt we need something that pushed 15% over that 69 CFM?

Ah... this is at 6K.  Where we want, at say 2,000-3,000 rpm,  we will be trying to push 84cfm into 23-34 cfm.  We will not be cramming that much, but we will have some positive pressure and should have some more acceleration.  I had some guy with a 80-100ci H.D. who did manage to outrun me, once I got into 2nd gear.
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #19 - 03/27/11 at 18:05:35
 
The idea of an electric fan boost is a good one and is being pursued by some major companies.  The usual application now is for direct injected 2 cycle engines.  The electric fan supplies air for scavenging and once the rpms of the engine get up a turbo takes over the duties.  The two cycle engine is close to making a come back.  They want to bring in clean air for combustion and leave the oil in the crankcase where it belongs.

It takes a powerful fan to create positive pressure at high flow rates.  Axial flow fans like those in cooling applications produce a lot of flow but very little pressure.  Even a furnace blower or bathroom exhaust fan has to be centrifugal just to overcome the resistance of the duct work.

But it's worth thinking about.  If you Google with something like "latest 2 cycle designs" or "direct injection 2 cycle" you will find lots to read about and some of it will mention the electric blowers.

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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #20 - 03/27/11 at 18:49:54
 
How about a jolt of nitrous?
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #21 - 03/27/11 at 18:59:27
 
It won't work because it will make the carb tuning out of whack. The fan can't compensate for throttle movement. It will obstruct air.They make air cleaners with little fans in them that does boost air flow into the carb. Its shaped like a funnel, but it doesn't do much because you can air lock the carb. When you slam the throttle closed. where is all the air trapped in there (under pressure) gonna go?? Into every hole it can find! Guess what happens when you pressurize the bowl of a carb??
Thats why you have sealed air boxes that encases the entire carb on accessory mount (blow thru) superchargers on carb equipped engines. They also have a pressure dump/compression release when pressure builds in the box that the engine doesn't want or can use.

A better idea would be to make a longer intake manifold to give it more runner length and get the carb out into the wind. Or make a split manifold and use 2 smaller carbs....Kinda like the manifold on a Solex twin throat carb....

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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #22 - 03/27/11 at 19:02:50
 
Intake theory says the area between carb & air filter needs to be = to or greater than the volume of the cylinder.
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #23 - 03/27/11 at 19:17:18
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 03/27/11 at 19:02:50:
Intake theory says the area between carb & air filter needs to be = to or greater than the volume of the cylinder.

No, it needs to be able to flow faster than the the cylinder can fill. My stock SE air cleaner on my 1200 Sporty has twice the area than the 2"x4" filter I run now. The advantage to my air cleaner is that it acts like a secondary venturi and actually moves more air. No stagnant areas that allows the movement of air flow to slow down or hinder flow in any way.
I ran one of these...



Which I made a mount and bracket that left the carb throat unobstructed and seems it should flow lots of air. Well, it does, but it also creates lots of turbulence.

So now I modified and run one of these cheap $12 Mr Gasket air cleaners with a K&N filter....It made 3hp and 4.7ft/lbs. It also took out a rich issue I had between 3400-4100.


And it also gave me more leg room...this crowded me pretty good. Hopefully I'll get some pics up of of by before and after...all these are before
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #24 - 03/29/11 at 12:09:05
 
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #25 - 03/29/11 at 12:34:51
 
Huh
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #26 - 03/30/11 at 06:33:12
 
Yonuh Adisi FSO wrote on 03/27/11 at 10:15:34:
This idea just hit me while reading the "Ditch the airbox" thread.

Now I'm just spit balling here since I don't even have a bike at the moment to test this on but here goes.

What do you think would happen if someone got rid of the airbox, put on a pod filter, and installed a fan similar to a computer fan between the filter and carb and wired it to a switch or something. Would that pretty much give it a poor man's turbo?

Like I said, just spit balling, thinking outloud, or what have you.

no.  if it worked the factories would have every motor come with something like that.  all you are going to do is jack the air fuel mix up.  you need pressure not just flow
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Re: Weird idea, probably wouldn't work.
Reply #27 - 03/31/11 at 03:26:31
 
ditch the air box for pod filters, yes.  Most upgrades for bikes start with either an air box mod or deletion.  Leave the fans for radiators, oil coolers, computers, air conditioners, and hair dryers......
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