SuzukiSavage.com - Savage Scrambler Build

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #15 - 03/15/11 at 18:19:12

Oooo. That sucks. I just ordered a 16t front sprocket last night. I also ordered a 52 rear and got a message today that it was out of stock...so back to the drawing board. I knew that there would be a lot of hit and miss on this project as I've never built a bike like this before. My plan is to get as close to "good" as possible, and cruise on it while I figure some real mods out to make it a real paved road/gravel road rocket. I think that when we figure out what the right recipie is, these bikes will prove to be a great platform for this type of conversion as they are light, torquey, efficient and stone ax reliable.

So...do you see any work around for the swing arm interference short of building a new one from scratch and moving the mounting points? Keep in mind that by adding the 18 rear rim, that I will have to add (or substract I guess) 9.5% to the final ratio. I was shooting for close to stock with the 16/52 combo and the 18" rim allowing me to change the front sprocket to 15t front for shorter gearing needs and a 17t front for long interstate rides. Any ideas?

BurnPgh wrote on 03/15/11 at 12:41:58:

mpnoffi wrote on 03/14/11 at 22:52:23:

Hi all. I have been lurking for a while now and thought that I would add a bit instead of just taking. I've learned a ton about these great bikes over the last 6 months or so from reading the info you guys have added here over the years...so...thanks for that. I have to say, that I belong to several forums, but none have a better crew of guys (and gals).

I bought my 2001 LS650 early last summer with the intentions of buying a Ryca Kit and converting the bike to a cafe style. I've ridden it quite a bit. Even took it on a 750 mile round trip to a vintage bike show in Birmingham. She did just fine. The Ryca kit is a really great idea from a guy ,Casey, that appears to be good folks (he has even helped me with some information on my build)...but I suffer from impatient guy syndrome in a large way. So...I started the tear about a week ago with the thought of converting my Savage into a Scrambler style of bike. I'm planning on using the bike as a daily road rider, gravel road explorer and might even hit the occasional single trail. Here is the plan and pics will follow:

12.5 inch rear shocks
drop the front about 2 inches (to get rid of some rake. still has plenty clearance)
aluminum skid plate
18" rear hoop laced to stock hub
16/52 sprockets with 530 chain conversion to keep stock ratio and add some adjustabilitystock front wheel
Continentel TKC 80 dual sport tires front and rear
4.5 gal gas tank from 79 Yamaha XS750
Renthal dirt bike bars
Extend and flaten seat posts to fit a triumph scrambler seat???(still working on this one)

I have a few pics that I will try to attach first, then I'll post a few pics of my inspiration. Feel free to offer your feedback or suggestions...good, bad or ugly. I can take it!
Noffi

You need to use a 17T front sprocket with the 12.5in shocks. The change in the angle of the swingarm will make the chain constantly scrape across the top, right above the bearing, otherwise. Id be hesitant to do anything higher than 17/50. Might get away with 17/47 but it'd be close enough that you'd have to constantly keep your chain in perfect tension.

Back to top

IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #16 - 03/15/11 at 18:42:40

That 18" front rim is a great idea to get some of the rake out of this front end. My optimistic mind see's this project working out well. If that becomes a reality, it will be worth upgrading lots of extra things including going to aluminum rims. At that time, I could go to the shorter spacers or maybe new triple trees and forks altogether.

As for the seat, I'm looking at taking a seat from a bonneville and shortening it like this bike I saw at the Barber Vintage Bike show in Birmingham this summer. THAT was a great place to find inspiration. I saw trucinduc's bike there too...cool ride. Here is the idea...

For the pegs and shifter/brake, I'm planning on ordering a "rear set" kit from Ryca. If you notice the mounting point is not very far back and I believe that it could be moved forward a bit more. My tank is about 2-4 inches longer than the stock tank and the bonneville seat is MUCH longer than the savage seat. I'm sort of shooting from the hip, but after I legnthen the swing arm 1-2" (the new tire fits but leaves almost no room for adjustment at 26.5"), I think all of this will come together. I'll try to get some mock up pics of the new tank and a 2 foot level I've been using to simulate the seat length and angle.

engineer wrote on 03/15/11 at 13:58:39:

Like the idea. Please keep posting I would like to see the progress on this project. Somebody here mentioned re-lacing his front wheel with an 18 inch rim vs. the stock 19 inch rim. I see new tires in the pics so maybe you are committed to those rims but to me it makes sense to go with a smaller front rim to help pitch the angle of the bike forward to reduce rake. That way you might be able to put a 1 1/2 inch spacer in the front suspension instead of the usual 2 inch spacer and save some of that fork travel. If you do any dirt riding you might want that travel. But maybe you are already past that point on your build.

The straight top seat will get you some height so you can move the pegs back. How about the pegs? How and where do you plan to mount them and deal with the shifter etc? I would like to know how people are dealing with that problem. There isn't a whole lot of space on that frame. I see you got some help on that project. Including your kids is a great thing to do.

Back to top

IP Logged

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28366 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Savage Scrambler Build Reply #17 - 03/15/11 at 19:28:12 Quote: Oooo. That sucks. I just ordered a 16t front sprocket last night. ...Any ideas? If you leave the front pulley cover off,... won't that solve the problem?... ... or maybe just grind away the offending area?......
Back to top	Ludicrous Speed !... ... ... IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #18 - 03/15/11 at 21:30:21

What do you guys think about using something like this?

or this...

I'm finding that a ton of dirt bike and dual sport guys use these over on the adv rider forums. Sometimes these bikes are equiped with these from the factory. If this were to work out ok, i might even be able to go even higher on the rear shocks for more travel and less rake. Thoughts?

Back to top

IP Logged

Serowbot

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28366
Tucson Az
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #19 - 03/15/11 at 23:07:18

If I'm envisioning the problem correctly,... that will just hold the chain up against the plate...

Since you've got the cog on the way anyway... I'd just install it, and look for the clearance issue...
I think you'll be able to trim away the cover plate to clear...
...or just remove it completely...

I'm flashing back to getting my jeans caught in my Hodaka chain...
Ahh,... the good ol' days... Huh

...

Back to top

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

...

IP Logged

Edgar

Senior Member

Offline

Are you a lucky
little lady in the
city of light?

Posts: 353
San Diego

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #20 - 03/15/11 at 23:20:04

mpnoffi wrote on 03/15/11 at 18:05:39:

Seems like a nature progression for his new business to offer a scrambler kit.

It'd be cool of they Started producing a bobber kit to rival the high prices of Blue collar bobbers. Not knocking BCB, I know it's good quality stuff, but seems like Ryca would be able to offer a more affordable price

Back to top

Stay Frosty.

IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #21 - 03/19/11 at 20:43:28

Well...had a busy week and a few honey do's to take care of this weekend, but I did manage to get the tank stripped free of paint and all the rust cleaned from the inside. I also was able to add the 2" spacers to my front forks and get them back together. Here are a few pics of the tank just sitting on the bike with a 24" level used to mark where the seat will end over the rear tire. The tank will actually sit a little lower and an inch or two further forward after it is mounted. I just bought a new take off seat from a 2007 Triumph bonneville to use on this build. Not sure if I'll end up shortening it a bit or not???
First the pics of the mock up, then a pic of the seat that will go where the level is...

Back to top

IP Logged

mpnoffi Junior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 64 Memphis Gender:	Re: Savage Scrambler Build Reply #22 - 03/19/11 at 20:58:20 Here is another possible option for chain rubbing concerns... This could possibly allow me to ditch these 12.5" shocks and go up to the 14" shocks used on the Jack Pine Triumph Scrambler in the first inspiration pic...Maybe...
Back to top	IP Logged

MotoBuddha Serious Thumper Offline Let's roll! Posts: 1416 Charlotte, NC	Re: Savage Scrambler Build Reply #23 - 03/20/11 at 08:59:25 The Yamaha tank is very cool. Care to share any details on how you're mounting it?
Back to top	Travel kills ignorance. IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #24 - 03/20/11 at 17:59:19

Thanks. Dont mind at all...
The under side of this tank has "ears" just like the Savage tank. I've used this xs750 tank for a cafe build on an xs650 once before. The ears are pretty close together which allows you to use the stock savage tank rubber mounts. I locate the mounting spot on the frame gusset, drill a hole through both sides of the frame gusset, run a short piece of all thread through it leaving just enough exposed to slip on the tank mounting rubber bushings and walla! The front of the tank is mounted.

The rear side of the tank will need a little more finessing though. You can see in my mock up pic, the 2' level sitting behind the tank. "approximately" where the level sits, I'll fab up a couple of tubes that will act as a place to mount the back side of the tank and the Bonneville seat, fender (maybe), tail light license plate etc... Having it higher like this will allow for taller shocks, giving me more clearance for when things get rough.
Make sense?

Back to top

IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #25 - 03/20/11 at 18:08:04

OH.. I see what you are saying now Serobot...
The chain rubbing concerns are not on the cases. The problem is where the Swing arm mounts to the frame. Since the front sprocket is smaller than the front pulley was, the angle heading towards the rear sprocket interfere's with the swing arm mount. I expected the cog to be here by now. As soon as it get's here, I'll mount it up and see what it looks like...and post some pics of course. This info might be worth adding to the "chain conversion" thread...which should be a sticky btw...

I hear ya on the jeans in sprocket deal...My first bike was a Honda MR 50 Elsinore my Dad bought me when I was 8. I took it apart too... Roll Eyes

Serowbot wrote on 03/15/11 at 23:07:18:

If I'm envisioning the problem correctly,... that will just hold the chain up against the plate...

Since you've got the cog on the way anyway... I'd just install it, and look for the clearance issue...
I think you'll be able to trim away the cover plate to clear...
...or just remove it completely...

I'm flashing back to getting my jeans caught in my Hodaka chain...
Ahh,... the good ol' days... Huh

...

Back to top

IP Logged

Max_Morley

Serious Thumper

Offline

LT650 Luxury Touring
& sidecar rig

Posts: 1490
Moses Lake. WA
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #26 - 03/20/11 at 19:44:56

Seems like I had a Yamaha Fat Tire that had a nylon anti wear plate that mounted on the swing frame, might try looking through a cycle boneyard for something. Also I used the spring loaded roller type years ago when I converted a Honda SL125 into a trials bike and had custom Kurnett(maybe Curnut) rear shocks made to get some rear wheel travel and take some of the rake and trail out of the front end. Took the slack out of the chain for trials riding. So long ago and I gave all the information to the new owner when I sold the bike. Max

Back to top

Max at Thumper Acres. '96 Savage bagger, '03 Savage w/Cozy sidecar for wifeni.

IP Logged

MotoBuddha

Serious Thumper

Offline

Let's roll!

Posts: 1416
Charlotte, NC

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #27 - 03/20/11 at 20:44:08

mpnoffi wrote on 03/19/11 at 20:58:20:

Here is another possible option for chain rubbing concerns...

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/mpnoffi/large_1032_chain-tensioner-p...

This could possibly allow me to ditch these 12.5" shocks and go up to the 14" shocks used on the Jack Pine Triumph Scrambler in the first inspiration pic...Maybe...

I saw one of those somewhere and I thought I bookmarked it. Where is this one from?

Back to top

Travel kills ignorance.

IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #28 - 03/20/11 at 21:10:40

This one is from Lowbrow customs. I found another one from Troy fab that has an angle cut into the mounting bracket. Not sure which one will fit my needs best. My cogs aren't here yet! A google search of "chain tensioner" pulled up some intesting results.

MotoBuddha wrote on 03/20/11 at 20:44:08:

mpnoffi wrote on 03/19/11 at 20:58:20:

Here is another possible option for chain rubbing concerns...

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/mpnoffi/large_1032_chain-tensioner-p...

This could possibly allow me to ditch these 12.5" shocks and go up to the 14" shocks used on the Jack Pine Triumph Scrambler in the first inspiration pic...Maybe...

I saw one of those somewhere and I thought I bookmarked it. Where is this one from?

Back to top

IP Logged

mpnoffi

Junior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 64
Memphis
Gender: male

Re: Savage Scrambler Build
Reply #29 - 03/29/11 at 18:30:02

Well...I've hit a s l o w spot on the scrambler build. Between work, family, being stumped and waiting on parts I haven't gotten too far this week. I did receive my new Bonneville seat though. Very nice take off of a 2007 model before it was ridden ($100). Here is a rough mock up pic....

I'll probably need to lengthen the swingarm about 1-2" to clear this tire and still be able to adjust the chain. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to get it to my welder to mount the tank and seat. I might relocate the top mount of my shocks too...so I can choose a longer shock for more travel and flaten out that swingarm a little too(helping to correct the chain rubbing on the swingarm pivot point). Hopefully will have some more pics after this weekend!
thanks
Noffi

Back to top

IP Logged