Home
Forum
Search
Login
Register
Merch
Donate
Welcome, Guest. Please
Login
or
Register
::
View Members
SuzukiSavage.com
›
General Category
›
Rubber Side Down!
› Crappy Welding Main Frames
(Moderators:
verslagen1
,
Dave
,
Serowbot
)
‹
Previous topic
|
Next topic
›
Pages: 1
Crappy Welding Main Frames (Read 221 times)
Routy
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender:
Crappy Welding Main Frames
12/19/10 at 09:55:43
I have always thought the welding on my bike's main frame is just plain crappy, wondering if I got one that was made on Friday or Monday. But after many pictures I've seen here, I don't feel singled out,....its all just plain crappy. I've even seen pcs of Mig wire sticking out of the welds, and gobs of weld hanging like it almost ended up a big drip on the floor. Seems to me like they not only hired anybody off the street to weld, but also have about the worst quality control I've seen.
I commented only because most any other welding I've seen from other countries has been beautiful,....just wondering why Suzuki is different.
But if no history of frame failures here, I guess the welding is good enough, and when the price is right we don't complain. And the only time I really see it is when I'm down low changing oil or something.
Back to top
Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
IP Logged
sexombob
YaBB Newbies
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 24
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #1 -
12/19/10 at 10:09:16
I think on all the cheaper bikes, they're not going to spend the extra money and effort to make better looking welds. Function over fashion i suppose. take the sv650 for example. The welds below the tank are clearly visible and ugly looking but what can you do? I'm just happy the engines and trannies are strong and long lasting.
Back to top
IP Logged
Routy
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #2 -
12/20/10 at 05:52:56
I haven't really looked at the welding on other motorcycles to compare, but several years ago I was really into Recumbent bicycles, (bent bikes) and I remember the low end model of EZRacers that was mfg'd in Freedom Ca. It wasn't selling well at around $1,000, and the welding wasn't pretty either. They were forced to get that competive model made overseas to get the price down to the compeditors price of $750.
The first models back were unbelievable,.....not only had the retail price had dropped to $695, all the welding was beautiful Heli-arc !
All the compeditors bikes were from overseas also, and the welding was superb on every one of them. Thats why this sloppy welding on Suzuki frames really surprised me, and also because welding/metal fab was my thing for most of my life.
Back to top
Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
IP Logged
Lupo
Senior Member
Offline
Posts: 356
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #3 -
12/20/10 at 14:30:44
When I built my bike I cleaned up all the welds. It looks like the frame welds are robotics. Look at how the stitch continues beyond the bonding points. Most of the welds are about 25% more then needed. I think a human would stop and go on to another weld where a machine applies whatever is dialed in.
Back to top
IP Logged
bill67
Serious Thumper
Offline
old tired
Posts: 8517
genoa city wisconsin
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #4 -
12/20/10 at 14:51:21
My wife welded for about fives years,Then they put her in the office for quality control on the welding.
Back to top
william h krumpen
IP Logged
ralfyguy
Serious Thumper
Offline
Posts: 932
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #5 -
12/20/10 at 16:27:23
My frame is no better. In fact it has like gritty sprinkles under the paint all over, and when I clean it, either the rag snags on it or sometimes my hands and knuckles and takes some skin and meat off. Some areas look like they were trying to breadcrumb it or something and then painted over the top.
Back to top
IP Logged
Routy
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #6 -
12/21/10 at 05:48:24
We call them "weld berries" or splatter.....sometimes caused from a machine being too hot. And a welder is sometimes set too hot for the inexperienced welder that can't hardly help get decent weld penetration by accident if nothing else.
I really don't believe that these frames are machine welded,...because the only consistency I see in the welds is that their all sloppy.
Hard to believe, but I'm not complaining, just commenting. As long as my frame doesn't start hi centering over a speed bump, it must be ok ! ?
Back to top
Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
IP Logged
Routy
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #7 -
12/21/10 at 05:58:35
bill67 wrote
on 12/20/10 at 14:51:21:
My wife welded
for Suzuki
for about fives years,Then they put her in the office for quality control on the welding.
Does this explain it all ?
Just kidding Bill
Back to top
Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
IP Logged
babyhog
Serious Thumper
Offline
Find a Cure for
Breast Cancer!
NOW!!
Posts: 3802
WV
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #8 -
12/21/10 at 07:30:10
Routy, since I don't think you will mind me asking a semi-related question... my husband does some welding, and the guys where I work weld daily. I have seen plenty of good welds and bad welds. I also know there are "specifications" to welding to ensure that the bond will be strong enough for the intended purpose. Does machine-welded stuff get inspected to make sure the welds are the proper length/thickness/whatever-word-fits-here? What are the chances of a machine weld being unsafe? Hopefully they care more about safety than they do about making it look good (because they sure don't care much about the looks, huh)
Back to top
~ 2006 Black, Big Crank battery, HD Softail muffler, engine guard/o-ring pegs, Spitfite windshield, custom mounted Saddlemen bags, Mustang seat! ~ oh, and Hairdo by Helmet! ~
IP Logged
Boofer
Serious Thumper
Offline
Nearly too old.
Posts: 1760
N Ms
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #9 -
12/21/10 at 08:00:34
Apparently you people are taking waaay too much time washing and waxing instead of riding. Around here if you don't wash off the oil leaks and ride on dusty roads the bad welds just seem to vanish. Maybe if BMW made a Savage?
Back to top
2001 Black, Spitfire windshield, Headlight upgrade, Sissy rack, Tool bag, Fork bag, Harley muffler, Memory foam seat, Crash bars. Hwy pegs, Raptor.
IP Logged
Routy
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #10 -
12/21/10 at 08:43:55
BH,
I really don't know much about programmed machine welding, except a lot of it that I have seen is beautiful and consistent. But I would have to guess that a machine weld is no better than what has been programmed into it,....or no better than the programmer.
babyhog wrote
on 12/21/10 at 07:30:10:
Routy, since I don't think you will mind me asking a semi-related question... my husband does some welding, and the guys where I work weld daily. I have seen plenty of good welds and bad welds. I also know there are "specifications" to welding to ensure that the bond will be strong enough for the intended purpose. Does machine-welded stuff get inspected to make sure the welds are the proper length/thickness/whatever-word-fits-here? What are the chances of a machine weld being unsafe? Hopefully they care more about safety than they do about making it look good (because they sure don't care much about the looks, huh)
Back to top
Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
IP Logged
wingsout
YaBB Newbies
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 45
Lockport NY
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #11 -
12/22/10 at 16:21:09
A lot of things come into play when welding;
Metal Inert Gas (MIG) is considered to be fast and efficient although not as strong as SMAW ( shielded metal arc welding) or TIG (tungsten inert gas). Wire speed plays a big role in MIG welding---shielding gas is usually CO2; some wire is flux cored which is not recommended.
The main things to look for in a weld are uniformity of bead ,undercutting, and air entrapment. If any of these things are present the weld is probably weak and may or may not be subject to failure.
The only sure way to tell if a weld is subject to failure is to X-ray it.
Hope this helps.
Back to top
IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
Offline
What happened?
Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #12 -
12/22/10 at 20:11:53
Just read a little ditty on welding up bicycle frames. Seems the parent material will break, depending on design ( lugged or not) & weld type. IIRC, they decided brazed frames held up better.
Back to top
The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
IP Logged
12Bravo
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 628
Mid-Missouri
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #13 -
12/23/10 at 06:13:06
I was military certified in welding and have done welding in the Army and in industrial plants as a civilian. There are a lot of variables when it comes to welding. A lot depends on what type of metal you are welding on if SMAW is better than MIG. Our bikes looks like they are welded by hand but I have yet to see one have any welds break. Might be different if someone was jumping a Savage all of the time (motocross)
Back to top
No Child Should Live In Fear!!!
'Keepers of the children'
http://www.bacaworld.org
IP Logged
Routy
Serious Thumper
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender:
Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Reply #14 -
12/23/10 at 07:37:16
Yep, most the welds look like the machines are turned up HOT for hi production. When welding hot, there is a lot better chance of good penetration, but it can sure take its toll in appearance. Being a wellder at trade, I would much rather see the hot splattery welds than cold balled up welds sitting on top (scary) but it does surprise me that there is virtually no cleanup,....not even hitting the lumps on these welds. But we know it all comes back to hi production....productivity. And like said, frame/weld failures are near non existent, so who's to complain.
Back to top
Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
IP Logged
Pages: 1
‹
Previous topic
|
Next topic
›
Forum Jump »
» 10 most recent posts
» 10 most recent topics
General Category
»» Rubber Side Down!
- Technical Documents/Reference
- The Marketplace
- The Cafe
- Politics, Religion (Tall Table)
- Forum Upgrade Issues / Tests
« Home
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
09/23/24 at 09:25:13
›
General Category
›
Rubber Side Down!
› Crappy Welding Main Frames
SuzukiSavage.com
» Powered by
YaBB 2.2
!
YaBB
© 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.