SuzukiSavage.com - wont start, different issue

greenmonster

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #45 - 12/18/10 at 12:57:53

The fun and games continue.

I've pulled everything apart again. When I first pulled the cover off the Starter Driven gear spun freely clockwise but wouldn't go counter clockwise. IRC that's correct, can anyone tell me if that's true? Also, I've taken the sparkplug out, hoping that I'd be able to turn the motor by hand/wrench, but I wasn't able to turn the rotor in either direction.
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated before I start putting it all back together.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28889 L.A. California Gender:	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #46 - 12/18/10 at 13:09:51 The starter clutch gear should turn the engine CCW, same way the wheels rotate to go forward. And freewheel CW. So it sounds right. Not being able to rotate with the sparkplug out sounds bad. take the clutch cover off, I'm going to cover me eyes.
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greenmonster Senior Member Offline Hellooooo Nurse! Posts: 420 Vancouver BC Gender:	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #47 - 12/18/10 at 13:16:03 well, part of the reason that it wouldn't rotate CCW with a wrench is because the bolt kept coming undone instead of turning the engine. So it may not be that bad.
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greenmonster Senior Member Offline Hellooooo Nurse! Posts: 420 Vancouver BC Gender:	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #48 - 12/18/10 at 15:30:26 Got the clutch cover off. Other than the fact that nothing will move it doesn't look like anything is wrong.
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Max_Morley

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #49 - 12/18/10 at 16:33:10

I think it is time to go back and revisit the first message. Had to jam on the brakes when a car pulled out in front of me. Not sure if it did it did spin after replacing the stripped gear. All teeth broken off were accounted for! Now the engine won't turn over, is so tight the rotor bolt loosens. Can you rock it back and forth even a tiny bit? I guess I'd start by double checking the missing tooth count and make sure one isn't stuck to a rotor magnet and jammed in the stator part. Also I think I read you were in the clutch side also, if so could something have not gone back together correctly there. Undo what you did one step at a time until the the engine is free. Max

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Max at Thumper Acres. '96 Savage bagger, '03 Savage w/Cozy sidecar for wifeni.

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greenmonster

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #50 - 12/18/10 at 18:54:11

Max, I've triple checked the tooth count that are missing and that I have. It balances out. It was the first thing that I checked. I've undone everything that I did. Even without the rotor on I can't spin the engine. So with the rotor still sitting beside the bike I took off the clutch cover today and there doesn't appear to be anything jamming up that side. Simply put everything looks fine it's just not moving.
It is looking like I'll need to do the tension mod soon though, I guess I have to look on the bright side, I wont have to rip anything apart for routine maintainence for a while...

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Max_Morley

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #51 - 12/19/10 at 13:19:14

Look in the manual for other gear drive parts where something could be jammed. clutch drive/driven gears, balancer gear set. and worst case scenario would be something in the transmission broke during the lock up stop. I don't remember any other posts regarding a like problem so I think that is a very low odds possibility. A little nagging thought in the back of m head wonders about the possibility of the cam being seized in the head or a valve being open and the piston up against it. I know you are working outside, but maybe a peek with a good bright flashlight down the spark plug hole would lend some light. Max

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Max at Thumper Acres. '96 Savage bagger, '03 Savage w/Cozy sidecar for wifeni.

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greenmonster

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #52 - 12/20/10 at 10:16:23

Your thoughts seem to be running the same way as mine. I've taken off the clutch cover to see if something is binding in there but I can't see anything. I'm starting to think that I'm going to be pulling the head off next. I just really don't like the idea of doing that outside. When I looked down through the spark plug hole I was able to see the piston, that should mean that it's not the item binding. shouldn't it?
What's the standard measurement for the cam chain tensioner? I know it's on the site in a dozen places but I'm already typing this up so... My tensioner seems to be out a fair peice but it's still solid with no slop. (then again, that describes my crank shaft right now too. )

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verslagen1

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #53 - 12/21/10 at 09:11:55

greenmonster wrote on 12/20/10 at 10:16:23:

When I looked down through the spark plug hole I was able to see the piston, that should mean that it's not the item binding. shouldn't it?
What's the standard measurement for the cam chain tensioner? I know it's on the site in a dozen places but I'm already typing this up so... My tensioner seems to be out a fair peice but it's still solid with no slop. (then again, that describes my crank shaft right now too. )

The fact that you can see the piston doesn't mean it's not what is causing the bind. As you can't see the rings. I bought my 2nd savage with a burnt piston. Fellow said he was riding along and it just stopped on him. Wouldn't start, wouldn't turn over. After it cooled off was able to start it, but damage had been done, knocked real bad. Another case I heard was more of a complete seizer. He sprayed penetrating oil in to free the piston and was able to turn over. Don't remember what he did with it after that.

18mm is the recommended limit, but you can go out to 22mm. But you will need to replace everything. And further than that and you're replacing an engine.

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greenmonster Senior Member Offline Hellooooo Nurse! Posts: 420 Vancouver BC Gender:	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #54 - 12/21/10 at 09:55:53 sigh I'm in that range. What parts am I going to have to replace there as well? I'm at work right now so I don't have my clymer to check what all will need replacing. Any suggestions as to where I should be picking things up?
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28889 L.A. California Gender:	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #55 - 12/21/10 at 10:07:38 A chain and guides or a verslavy. But I'd wait till you figured out the cause of the freeze.
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greenmonster

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #56 - 12/31/10 at 11:40:13

okay, finally some daylight to work on Nessy!

I pulled the clutch and the gear off the crank to see if there was something binding in there. Nothing.
Managed to get some rotation by turning the crank, top-backwards. It catches in a couple places but for the most part rolls fairly smoothly, problem is... can't rotate it top forward. I'm also pretty concerned about the smooth, smooth, catch, smooth, catch, catch, smooth smooth smooth, catch that I'm getting when I turn it.

Anyone have any ideas or am I resigned to pulling Nessy's heart out and taking a look inside?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #57 - 12/31/10 at 12:44:53 If youve got the plug out & its in neutral, the olny load youre fighting is the cam coming up on the valve springs. Maybe loosening off the adjusters would let you feel only the piston going up & down the bore.
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greenmonster

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Re: wont start, different issue
Reply #58 - 12/31/10 at 13:03:49

That's what I figured. Turning it backwards I have very little resistance, nothing more than I would expect (other than the catches). Forward, it's like pushing against a brick wall.

My absolutely amazing, loving, spectacularly beautiful wife Kiss

has suggested that I can pull the engine and work on it in the living room! Shocked

I should be able to finally get somewhere with this now.

Any suggestions for things that I should be concidering upgrading while I have it ripped apart?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: wont start, different issue Reply #59 - 12/31/10 at 13:21:19 If you want Mo POwer, get a cam. I have one of the Special Order cam chains Im looking to sell, new, been soaking in a jar of oil since the day I got it. & I have a Supertrapp w 14 disks Im lookin to sell..
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