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BuckRYCA
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Re: octane
Reply #15 - 09/22/10 at 08:24:26
 
There's lots to read on this topic. It's been kicked around for a long time. Google 'lower octane higher mpg' for starters.

If you don't believe me, do your own experiment. Run about 10 gallons of 93 octane and carefully calculate your mpg (fill your tank to the top at the start and at the end). Then run about 10 gallons of 87 and do the same. Ethanol makes a difference, so run your experiment with gas of the same ethanol content. Report your results, please.
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Re: octane
Reply #16 - 09/22/10 at 08:58:02
 
OK. I did some reading, and the overwhelming opinion is that you will get the best mileage using fuel for which your engine has been tuned. The LS650-S40 has been tuned to use 87. One test report showed that a vehicle tuned for 87 lost 4 percent of its mpg using 89 and 9 percent using 93.
As I said, my ear has been telling me that my Suzy likes 89 better. That is purely anecdotal and has more to do with feeling than fact. I get 50 mpg on the little iron horse now. I will try two or three tanks of 87 and report my results ... assuming however, that the thumper doesn't start shake rattle and roll with the introduction of the 87 fuel. I will (obviously) use the same brand from the same service station. I currently use BP, and I am such a creature of habit I almost always buy at the same station near my home.
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Re: octane
Reply #17 - 09/22/10 at 23:21:35
 
O.K. ..I'll throw down here and probably get everybody as confused as me. My bike seems to run the same performance wise on both high and low octane. It seems I'm getting better mileage with the cheap stuff but a little backfiring when chopping the throttle. The good stuff doesn't backfire at all. Now the point to ponder. High octane burns longer then low octane yet better mileage should mean better efficiency. Why the backfiring (though it is just a little).
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Re: octane
Reply #18 - 09/23/10 at 05:56:39
 
Lupo, what you report on backfiring seems to make sense. Higher octane grades burn more slowly and are more difficult to ignite. Unburnt gas is accumulating in the exhaust no matter what octane grade you are using. The lower octane grade is more likely to ignite in the exhaust system and backfire than the higher octane grade. Lower octane gas is designed to ignite more easily, so more backfiring.

Have you turned your idle circuit adjustment screw (right side of carb, high up near engine intake sleeve, under a brass plug) counterclockwise (CCW) 1/4 turn? This got rid of most of my backfiring on 87 octane. (I still get over 50 mpg if I take it easy.)

I'm not sure why this works the way it does. Doing so should make for more unburnt fuel accumulating in the exhaust. Maybe the richer mixture lowers the temperature of whatever is igniting the mix. Lowers it just enough that it's less likely to ignite?
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Re: octane
Reply #19 - 09/23/10 at 14:31:22
 
87 produces more usable power than 89 and 93 because it has a lower flash point which results in a better/more complete burn. the 89 and 93 are for higher compression engines that can and will ignite the fuel charge by compression force (creates heat when squeezed) before the plug ignites so you get the awful knock or ping (like a diesel). You can actually see the differences on a dyno. You can make higher compression engines work on 87 if you coat the piston tops and valves (some times) with a ceramic type coating to reduce the temps.  Spark advance/timing plays a large role in this equation too.
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Re: octane
Reply #20 - 09/23/10 at 14:51:17
 
BuckRYCA wrote on 09/23/10 at 05:56:39:
Lupo, what you report on backfiring seems to make sense. Higher octane grades burn more slowly and are more difficult to ignite. Unburnt gas is accumulating in the exhaust no matter what octane grade you are using. The lower octane grade is more likely to ignite in the exhaust system and backfire than the higher octane grade. Lower octane gas is designed to ignite more easily, so more backfiring.

Have you turned your idle circuit adjustment screw (right side of carb, high up near engine intake sleeve, under a brass plug) counterclockwise (CCW) 1/4 turn? This got rid of most of my backfiring on 87 octane. (I still get over 50 mpg if I take it easy.)

I'm not sure why this works the way it does. Doing so should make for more unburnt fuel accumulating in the exhaust. Maybe the richer mixture lowers the temperature of whatever is igniting the mix. Lowers it just enough that it's less likely to ignite?


As I said it is very slight and only if I chop the throttle as done on some windy roads. I'm getting 48 mpg playing with it and I'm sure a more mature 59 year old could do better. Now you do give me an excuse to mess with the tune a bit and go for a ride later. When I adjusted the mixture screw I had premium in the tank.  Cool
This octane topic could be as  Shocked as an oil thread.
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Re: octane
Reply #21 - 09/23/10 at 14:55:37
 
einheit13 wrote on 09/23/10 at 14:31:22:
87 produces more usable power than 89 and 93 because it has a lower flash point which results in a better/more complete burn. the 89 and 93 are for higher compression engines that can and will ignite the fuel charge by compression force (creates heat when squeezed) before the plug ignites so you get the awful knock or ping (like a diesel). You can actually see the differences on a dyno. You can make higher compression engines work on 87 if you coat the piston tops and valves (some times) with a ceramic type coating to reduce the temps.  Spark advance/timing plays a large role in this equation too.

And plug heat range. Wink
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Re: octane
Reply #22 - 09/23/10 at 15:16:11
 
And gap  Smiley
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Re: octane
Reply #23 - 09/23/10 at 15:29:12
 
  A friend of mine a few years back had a 1992 Cadillac Eldorado,It called for 92 octane she aways used 87 octane,she drove it closed to 100000 miles and never had a problem with it.If you don't floor a car all the way it want ping.
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Re: octane
Reply #24 - 09/23/10 at 18:25:11
 
floor the car or put under heavy load
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Re: octane
Reply #25 - 09/23/10 at 18:33:36
 
Floor the car all the way.
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Re: octane
Reply #26 - 09/23/10 at 18:34:30
 
87 octane in in the Savage, the Helix, two Kawasaki Voyagers, and a Goldwing...never had a problem with this octane.

Now if you are going to let your bike sit you might want to try something different.
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Re: octane
Reply #27 - 09/23/10 at 18:47:49
 
JohnBoy wrote on 09/23/10 at 18:34:30:
87 octane in in the Savage, the Helix, two Kawasaki Voyagers, and a Goldwing...never had a problem with this octane.

Now if you are going to let your bike sit you might want to try something different.

I run 87 and 89 in my 1200 sporty. 93 made no difference in mileage or performance so I save a little coin...for oil...
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bill67
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Re: octane
Reply #28 - 09/23/10 at 18:55:39
 
I've always used 87 in all my bikes except the 1980 V50 Moto Guzzi which called for 98 octane Standard Oil gas work the best it would ping 1 time and no more all other gas brands would keep pinging .I once found 95 octane leaded gas in southern Ill. but it would ping on that the same as other gas.If I put in octane booster it did have more power but I didn't use it except once.Standard is now BP.Or was bought out by BP.
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« Last Edit: 09/26/10 at 13:49:05 by bill67 »  

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Re: octane
Reply #29 - 09/23/10 at 20:01:42
 
bill67 wrote on 09/23/10 at 18:55:39:
I've always used 87 in all my bikes except the 1988 V50 Moto Guzzi  

HuhV-50? That's what started my love affair with Guzzi.  34 years now and going strong. That love of torque steered me to doing a Savage as a town bike. Oh..sorry, octane.
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