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Oil temps and usage comparison (Read 3374 times)
verslagen1
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #195 - 10/25/10 at 16:56:02
 
Charon wrote on 10/25/10 at 16:42:20:
I was also interested to note bill67's comments that Klotz runs cooler and gives more horsepower, along with his comment that because the Klotz provides a better piston ring seal the head temperature will be higher. There seems to be a contradiction, somewhere.

Facts? not with billshut around.  His statement clearly says Amsoil is better by 2° but don't let the facts get in your way.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #196 - 10/25/10 at 17:43:56
 

Well, this oil war has about run its course -- I have to agree with that.

I can live me a fine full life without knowing for sure if Rotella T dino 15w40 really can whup up on Klotz 15w50 synthetic on the temperature tests (although I suspect it would being a 15W40 oil and having better thermal conductivity on the high end accordingly).

We have learned that 15w50 oils of two respected brands can't conduct away heat nearly as well as a 5w40 oil can, and that was interesting thing to learn (and certainly unexpected).

Two very expensive brand names of "glitz" performance oils have come down a notch or two, in my mind anyway.   Certainly I question their performance vs their high high price even more than previously.

And Bill collected him a new nickname, one that reflects his "openess of mind" to any new ideas.  Billshut continues as he has before, undaunted by facts or data or anything else.  He never even connected on to the oil weight thing and never asked for or insisted on a retest using a lighter weight of Klotz oil (if they make such a thing).

Ah, such is life .....

.... as the song sez so well



"Hey Bungalow Bill .....  what did you kill?

Bungalow Bill ....





Grin    he's the all-American bullet-headed saxon mother's son
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« Last Edit: 10/25/10 at 22:21:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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bill67
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #197 - 10/25/10 at 18:44:10
 
OF he claims he use Klotz 15w50w And Klotz makes all the weight oils,0w 50w for snowmobiles,They make racing synthetic oils,Not run of the mill Wal-Mart oils.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #198 - 10/25/10 at 18:57:03
 
He went out tiger hunting with his elephant and gun
In case of accidents he always took his mom
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #199 - 10/25/10 at 19:00:24
 
bill67 wrote on 10/25/10 at 16:54:03:
What I said was pretty silly, It was about as silly as Briggs & Stratton doing the same thing,Most wear on and engine is on start up so the test would show which oil that would have less wear on start up.Head temperature and oil temperature are 2 different things,oil shows how hot the over all engine is,And thats were the wear comes in ,Its not in the head.Because the head is hotter doesn't mean the engine is.

Bump
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #200 - 10/25/10 at 19:15:22
 
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #201 - 10/25/10 at 19:37:07
 

Was that a short horned bull that you shooted wid your widdle elephant gun, as he sped by on by on the back of that 4 stroke racing snowmobile?


Moooooo !!!     Mooooooooooo !!!            <BAM!!>


Now that would be a contest -- 15w50 Klotz racing 4 stroke snow mobile oil vs lowly "common as dirt" old dino 15w40 Rotella T

--- there wouldn't be a lot of weight difference to futz things up.


You go first (and at 710 miles per year it may take you a decade or two to get any substantive results).

Bill, I ride more than 710 miles (counting both ways) just to get to a Dragon Run.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #202 - 10/25/10 at 19:48:28
 
On further thought, my generator with its Briggs & Stratton engine does have a major difference from the S40. It is an old flat-head side-valve engine, so there is no oil circulation in its head. Thus the head temperature would probably bear little relationship to the oil temperature. It is also a splash-lubricated engine with no pressurized oil system. I could still assume differences in run time, pulling the same load, could reflect different oil friction in the engine. The engine is governed, so if oil friction increased, throttle opening would increase; fuel consumption would increase, and heat (temperature) would increase. Cooling air flow would remain roughly constant, since it is determined by governed engine speed. If I filled the little one-quart tank from a five-gallon can, I would eliminate most possible differences from fuel. I may yet do a little experimenting. Sure hate the idea of spending megabucks on exotic oils, though.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #203 - 10/25/10 at 20:13:18
 

Briggs engine would also show the oil weight (last number) differences as a "major effect" as the crank cap paddle splashes thru the stuff once per rev.


Liked that Briggs emblem on the tank,  I actually thought about the Webley Vickers emblem, that one was kinda cool looking (and feasible for the casual onlooker as what the heck was Vickers but an obscure Brit  bike builder and the Webley part was an awkward British semi-automatic revolver.

Saw a Horton emblem a while back, too.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #204 - 10/25/10 at 21:20:44
 
Webley still makes some fine air guns http://www.webley.co.uk/
The Briggs on the tank gets some amusing reactions. Most buy into it. Wink
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #205 - 10/25/10 at 22:00:10
 


Bill's rendition of the Beatles Classic "Bungalow Bill"    

All the ritualized tree knothole abuse shown in this film was Bill's idea -- we just posted the film "as taken"

It is obvious that Bill is still thinkin' about them ugly hillbillies -- he's been a practicing his rebuttal



Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

He went out hunting with his elephant and gun
in case of accidents he always took his mom
he's the all-American bullet-headed saxon mother's son

All the children sing
Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Deep in the jungle where the mightly tiger lies
Bill and his elephants were taken by surpirse
so Captain Marvel zapped him right between the eyes

All the children sing
Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

The children asked him if to kill was not a sin
"Not when he looked so fierce", his mommy butted in
"If looks could kill, it would have been us instead of him".

All the children sing
Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

Hey, Bungalow Bill
what did you kill
Bungalow Bill?

1968 Northern Songs, Ltd.
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« Last Edit: 10/26/10 at 11:26:06 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #206 - 10/27/10 at 15:23:53
 
The whole "oil test" idea has been nagging at me, so today I went out and ran a "proof-of-concept" preliminary test, using my generator. I must stand corrected, though - I said it was a 2500 watt unit, but it is only 2400 watts. I mounted the little one-quart tank using cable ties, and ran a clear fuel line to the carburetor (this engine has a carburetor separate from the fuel tank, with a needle and float in it). I made a wire pointer and attached it to the throttle on the carburetor, then stuck a piece of tape to a convenient spot so I could see how far open the throttle actually is. I filled the tank, started the engine, and plugged a voltmeter into the outlet. 133 volts, unloaded. I marked the throttle position on the tape, then plugged in a 1000 watt heater. Voltage dropped to 125 volts; throttle opened up some, and I marked its new spot.  I unplugged the 1000 watt heater and plugged in a different one, unmarked for power. Voltage dropped to 123 volts; throttle opened slightly more than with 1000 watts. I marked that spot, too. Then I added the 1000 watt. Voltage dropped to 110 volts; throttle opened some more (but not quite to the wide-open mark I had previously made). I marked the spot. Somewhere in there I remembered to start a stop watch, but wasn't too worried about exact timing for the trial run. I walked away for about five minutes (noisy darn thing), and when I came back noticed the throttle had closed a little. Voltage was still 110 volts. My guess is that the engine and its oil warmed up during that time.

Under the full load the engine ran for right at 30 minutes. I had calculated it ought to run for somewhere in the 30 - 35 minute range, so was glad to see my calculations verified. I have not yet installed any temperature measuring stuff, but I am still strongly thinking about drilling the oil-fill plug and sticking a meat thermometer through it into the oil. I am also going to refine the throttle position indicator, and find a way to measure current.

The engine presently has 10W-30 oil in it, but I didn't write down what brand when I changed it last. I'll make my refinements, and run another test or two to see if things are reasonably repeatable. I have on hand both Rotella 15W-40 conventional and Rotella 5W-40 synthetic oils, so they will probably be the first ones tested. I also have some 5W-30, so it will likely be tried too.

I am thinking about the cross-contamination issue. When I drain one oil, some will stay in the engine to contaminate the next oil. I think I may keep the 10W-30. Then when I drain a test oil, I'll put the 10W-30 back in, run the engine for a few minutes, and drain. That way at least the cross-contamination will be more or less the same.

Anyone have any suggestions (that don't cost a lot of money, since I am retired and there was no COLA either last year or this)?
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #207 - 10/27/10 at 15:28:48
 
Charon wrote on 10/27/10 at 15:23:53:





Anyone have any suggestions (that don't cost a lot of money, since I am retired and there was no COLA either last year or this)?


Go fishing Smiley
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #208 - 10/27/10 at 15:43:27
 
I have never heard of bungalow bill in my life.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #209 - 10/27/10 at 16:35:05
 

Bill,

He's YOU, old bud,  tight little tree knot-holes and all

he's the "all-American bullet-headed saxon mother's son".


==============================================


Charon,

Let's play make believe -- you have finished your tests and the heavier oils ran slightly shorter times and had slightly higher temperatures (some logic behind that) and lighter weight oils ran slightly longer times and had slightly lower temperatures (once again, in line with what we learned from Verslagen's tests and the SAE rating system's functional requirements)

What conclusions should we draw, other than to pay attention to the oil weight numbers (second # is important for full temp run rates, first # is important for cold starts).

Ditto if I actually rigged up my 2 channel to my bike and ran RotSyn against Rotella T dino.  I'd find the synthetic 5w40 gave marginally lower temps than the 15w40 dino oil did, simply because it sucked heat from the head better and dumped it more effectively into the sump to be radiated out into the ambient air through the aluminum main case halves and side covers.

What would really change for us?

Unless of course, the COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED actually showed up again .....

Grin
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