SuzukiSavage.com - my savage is dead.

Arnold Serious Thumper Offline The dude abides... Posts: 896 Westchester, NY Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #30 - 08/03/10 at 05:12:52 5th gear started on 96 models.
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Hashbrown Full Member Offline What can brown do for you! Posts: 235 Nashua, NH Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #31 - 08/03/10 at 05:22:08 Arnold wrote on 08/03/10 at 05:12:52: 5th gear started on 96 models. i beg to differ, 5 gear started on 95 models
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Arnold Serious Thumper Offline The dude abides... Posts: 896 Westchester, NY Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #32 - 08/03/10 at 05:26:09 Really? I have a 95 Savage but it's a 96 model so I thought I had one of the first 5th gear. Well I'll be darned.
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Routy

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Re: my savage is dead.
Reply #33 - 08/03/10 at 05:32:40

Justin,
If you don't know, who does ? Amazing that an answer to that simple question is not well known on this site. I thought the 5sp was like an overdrive compared to the 4sp, and still believe it is. (till shown otherwise)
Myself, I would not want any higher final than 5th gear. These engines stock are working hard enough at freeway speeds now, w/o actually TRYING to burn them up. :'(

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/29/10 at 04:38:30:

Didnt the old 4 speeds actualy have a higher final gear`ratio than the 5s do?

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Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

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Arnold Serious Thumper Offline The dude abides... Posts: 896 Westchester, NY Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #34 - 08/03/10 at 05:38:41 Both bikes have the same top speed dont they? I usually shift to 5th around 40-45 mph.
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james may

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Re: my savage is dead.
Reply #35 - 08/03/10 at 05:52:15

Owners manual says you should be in 5th by like 35. I really don't notice a big difference. Lots of times I try to upshift when I'm already in 5th because 4th and 5th feel about the same and there's not much of change in rpm when ya shift to 5th.

You should swap out for a Suzuki gsxr 1300(busa) motor and tranny 6 speed. That'd feel different.

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Charon

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Re: my savage is dead.
Reply #36 - 08/03/10 at 05:53:54

According to the article in the September 1996 Motorcycle Consumer News, in which the Savage was reviewed:

"A quick comparison shows the old Savage turned 69.6 rpm per 1 mph in top gear, while the five-speed turns 67.5 rpm per 1 mph. Fourth gear had this bike spinning 72.9 rpm per 1 mph."

My calculator multiplies those numbers times 60 to give 4176 rpm at 60 mph for the four-speed; 4050 for the five-speed in fifth; and 4356 for the five-speed in fourth. I can only quote what they said.

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Arnold Serious Thumper Offline The dude abides... Posts: 896 Westchester, NY Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #37 - 08/03/10 at 06:00:18 But it makes sense though, the 4th gear on the 5 speed should rev higher than the 4 speed at the same speed.
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LS-Rich

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Re: my savage is dead.
Reply #38 - 08/03/10 at 06:17:17

Here's what my Clymer's manual has for each models gear ratios.

1986-1988
1st gear 2.214
2nd gear 1.500
3rd gear 1.095
4th gear 0.875

1995-on
1st gear 2.333
2nd gear 1.578
3rd gear 1.142
4th gear 0.956
5th gear 0.884

If in fact both transmissions have the same primary drive ratio. The 4 speed does have a little higher gear ratio on the top end. When you go to http://www.gearingcommander.com/ it shows the primary drive ratio for the 99-03 being 1.81. Now that's for the 5 speed. I've been looking and looking for the primary drive ratio on the 4 speed and can't find one anywhere. I believe it is even higher yet. When I input the gear ratios the 4 speed has into gearing commander and leave the primary drive at the same as the 5 speed the chart doesn't jive with my actual numbers that my 4 speed actually does. When I input a little higher gear ratio into the primary drive box I start to get numbers that actually start to jive with the numbers my bike gets. I believe I have to go to 1.5 on the primary drive number to get it to match the numbers my 4 speed gets.

So..... With all that being said... I believe the 4 speed is considerably higher geared than the 5 speed. IF.... That is If the numbers Gearing Commander has for the 5 speed primary drive is accurate.

Just my two cents.

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1987 Long Savage, 2006 crf450r

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Charon

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Re: my savage is dead.
Reply #39 - 08/03/10 at 06:20:09

The thing about '95 and '96 may be the difference between production date and model year. My '07 was actually produced in '06. The automotive industry is notorious for that practice, and the RV industry is worse. The RV industry purchases chassis from manufacturers, then assembles the RV on top. The vehicle may have an '06 chassis under an '08 RV, but even though the chassis is older it will be sold as an '08.

The conventional definition of an "overdrive" transmission is one in which the output shaft turns faster than the input. By that definition the old four-speed had an overdrive fourth, and the newer five-speed has both fourth and fifth as overdrives.

The unmentioned ratios are the primary drive ratios (engine to clutch) and the final drive ratios (drive to driven pulley). I believe the final ratio is the same on both bikes, but have been unable to actually find out. Clymer doesn't seem to mention either one. From other comments on the forum it appears the primary ratios are different, but until someone can actually count gear teeth on both models we may not know.

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Routy Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2280 Winston Oregon Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #40 - 08/03/10 at 06:44:03 Is the belt and belt pulleys the same size on 4sp and 5sp ? I suspect not
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LS-Rich Full Member Offline If it ain't broke.... Make it longer!! Posts: 109 Omaha, Nebraska Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #41 - 08/03/10 at 06:57:28 Routy wrote on 08/03/10 at 06:44:03: Is the belt and belt pulleys the same size on 4sp and 5sp ? I suspect not I got 23/68 on my 87 4 speed (just counted them). The Clymer manual says both 4 and 5 speed are the same. Anyone want to count them off a 5 speed to make sure?
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LS-Rich Full Member Offline If it ain't broke.... Make it longer!! Posts: 109 Omaha, Nebraska Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #42 - 08/03/10 at 07:10:57 Arnold wrote on 08/03/10 at 05:38:41: Both bikes have the same top speed dont they? I usually shift to 5th around 40-45 mph. I usually shift to 4th around 70-75mph
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #43 - 08/03/10 at 08:44:29 Thereason I asked about the 4th to 5th gear trannies & whether or not it correlated with the jetting changes was to see if meeting the EPA requirements by jetting leaber forced them to redesign thetranny to maintain the top speed of the bike, with the smaller jets. Is that even possible? Need a historian ANDacarb tuner.
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Routy Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2280 Winston Oregon Gender:	Re: my savage is dead. Reply #44 - 08/03/10 at 09:26:44 They are the same 23/68 on my 5 speed. ----------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: I got 23/68 on my 87 4 speed (just counted them). The Clymer manual says both 4 and 5 speed are the same. Anyone want to count them off a 5 speed to make sure? [/quote]
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