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Speed Wobbles (Read 443 times)
groupus
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Speed Wobbles
07/04/10 at 12:06:27
 
i just seemed to have developed some pretty nasty speed wobbles that start at about 75-75mph. any insight on this? its freakin' scary and potentially dangerous. also, i put new tires on months ago, but this hasn't happened til now.
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Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death. ~Hunter Thompson

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #1 - 07/04/10 at 12:15:45
 
Checked tire pressures? Inspected them? Held front brake & rocked the bike to feel for looseness in head bearings?
Mine gets to riding like a rubber cow in corners, but is straight & true on a sraight shot.
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #2 - 07/04/10 at 12:24:56
 
Uneven road or rain grooves?

Do you have a fork brace?
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #3 - 07/04/10 at 13:46:21
 
Most likely cause is steering head bearings need adjustment.
Block up the front of the bike and adjust the bearings by tightening them until the front does not free fall to either side. It should still fall to either side but not fast, there must be a SLIGHT resistance.

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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #4 - 07/04/10 at 14:05:56
 

Do your handlebars sit slightly "crooked" when you are going down the road in a straight line?

If so, this can indicate that your rear wheel is cocked off to the side (the marks on the axle are notoriously inaccurate) and this can contribute to a harmonic "wobble" that is rear wheel driven.  To correct, move the rear wheel as if you were correcting the error shown in your "crooked" handlebars.

Another test to perform -- when the wobble begins lean forward and shift your center of mass (combined mass, you and the bike) forward a bit.  If the wobble immediately begins to stop you may well have a rear wheel related issue.   Have your wheels been balanced and TRUED (spoke tuned) lately?

Next test, when the wobble begins steer the bike to the smooth hump in the dead center of the road -- this removes the "rut groove" that exists in most tarmac roads from playing against your bike's natural harmonics.

I have become a bit of an expert in fighting them evil wobbles since I got my bike smacked in the rear tire by a truck in a parking lot ...

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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #5 - 07/04/10 at 18:19:43
 
checked the tires and pressure today, also checked the head bearings via justin's shake method. all good but still has the wobbles. i don't have a fork brace, it never did this before. handle bars look fine too. i'm ruling out grooves and road surface because it does it pretty consistently at speed on many different roads. tried shifting weight forward, back, left, and right to no avail. wheels were balanced when i got the new tires, but never trued as long as i've had it (has almost 16k).

surprisingly, the wobbles seem to stop, or at least greatly reduce when i take my left hand off the bars. figure that one out. i'm going to tighten the head anyway cause it does like to flop to one side when i park, and i'll at least have a look at the rear. do you need a special tool to tighten the head?

That being said, thanks so much for the help. i know that speed wobbles or "death wobbles" are extremely dangerous. hasn't turned into a tank slapper yet, but at least i can stop them by slowing down. more updates to follow.
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Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death. ~Hunter Thompson

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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #6 - 07/04/10 at 23:33:44
 
To tighten the head bearings you don't need a special tool, a screwdriver will do.  I think I tightened mine hand tight only using the screwdriver to over come a sticky spot.

for our reference, what tire do you have?
how much tread?
even wear?
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #7 - 07/05/10 at 00:25:58
 
new tires..
were they balanced/
did you throw a weight/
are spokes tight
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #8 - 07/05/10 at 07:08:32
 
How many miles on those "new" tires? You said you put them on "months ago." If you have put a few thousand miles on them they aren't new any longer. And don't forget to check the rear tire, too. Both tires the same brand and type (radial/bias)? There have been reports (though I've not seen any on this forum) that some combinations of tires can cause odd problems. Do you have a windshield? If so, check its hardware. If not, it is just conceivable your grip on the bars fighting the wind may be the problem - the hint being that the wobble reduces when you remove your left hand from the bars. Try leaning forward to counter the wind (difficult on a cruiser), so you are not pulling back on the bars.

Edited to add: You might also check the swing arm bearings. That probably involves lifting the rear and attempting to feel for any play in the swingarm. At least on the 250 Ninja, the swing arm bearings are supposed to be greased every 6000 miles, and greasing them calls for disassembly.
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« Last Edit: 07/05/10 at 14:11:14 by Charon »  

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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #9 - 07/06/10 at 07:13:35
 
Had both my wheels trued when my new tires were put on...didn't really want to (cuz it was more than I wanted to spend) but I had suspected the front anyway because of some brake rubbing. I trust the place I went and they true them to 2/1000's of an inch (round, dish and lateral). I don't think it had probably ever been done.

Anyway, I was getting a "light" front end wobble when I was going hiway speeds...now I don't.
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #10 - 07/06/10 at 09:25:38
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 07/04/10 at 14:05:56:

Do your handlebars sit slightly "crooked" when you are going down the road in a straight line?

If so, this can indicate that your rear wheel is cocked off to the side (the marks on the axle are notoriously inaccurate) and this can contribute to a harmonic "wobble" that is rear wheel driven.  To correct, move the rear wheel as if you were correcting the error shown in your "crooked" handlebars.

Another test to perform -- when the wobble begins lean forward and shift your center of mass (combined mass, you and the bike) forward a bit.  If the wobble immediately begins to stop you may well have a rear wheel related issue.   Have your wheels been balanced and TRUED (spoke tuned) lately?

Next test, when the wobble begins steer the bike to the smooth hump in the dead center of the road -- this removes the "rut groove" that exists in most tarmac roads from playing against your bike's natural harmonics.

I have become a bit of an expert in fighting them evil wobbles since I got my bike smacked in the rear tire by a truck in a parking lot ...



That's just one of the ways them trucks will try to kill you.

Phelonius
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #11 - 07/06/10 at 14:11:12
 
ok, so the tires probably have 3000 miles on them, but both look to have even tread wear. Avon Venom front, Dunlop 404 rear. i did adjust the back wheel alignment but haven't tested it yet. i can't get the steering head any tighter, do i have to jack up the front end for that or loosen the crown nut first? I tapped on each of the spokes with a wrench and listen to the tone to check tightness (tighter have a higher tone, looser a lower). there was some variation in tone, but not much. I'll try jacking the front and rear up and spin them it see if there is any noticeable deflection, as well as check the swing arm and head for additional free play.
no windshield by the way..

interestingly enough, my friend with a xs650 is having issues with a wobble under heavy acceleration. his definitely seems to originate from the rear, while mine seems isolated to the front.

ps. any idea how much it costs to true a wheel, those who have done it?
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Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death. ~Hunter Thompson

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #12 - 07/06/10 at 19:07:25
 
You can true a wheel, Just takes some time & patience & a bit of ingenuity. I wont type the methiod, cuz that would take a typist like me about as long as truing the wheel. I guess it would require some ability to assemble tools from junk, which I can do.
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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #13 - 07/06/10 at 19:33:22
 
You just answered your own issue. D404 is a hard tire, Venom is very soft. I had a Bridgestone front and Cheng Shin rear on my Vulcan 800 Classic. Rode fine straight at low speeds (35-45 mph). In a turn at 20 mph, the headset locked. Broken shoulder, 12 pins, a plate and 2 years later I could ride my Savage. Vulcan, as far as I was concerned, was a total loss. Once the headset gets locked and that is enhanced by a crash, the frame is junk.

Don't waste money on Avons, get yourself another 404 and you should be good to go.

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Re: Speed Wobbles
Reply #14 - 07/07/10 at 05:35:02
 
groupus wrote on 07/04/10 at 12:06:27:
i just seemed to have developed some pretty nasty speed wobbles that start at about 75-75mph. any insight on this? its freakin' scary and potentially dangerous. also, i put new tires on months ago, but this hasn't happened til now.


I had the same on my trusty old Moto Guzzi V50, the front fork stems had worn and the oil/compressed gas in the individual stems were at different levels.
In other words, the two stems of the front fork had different stiffness, so any time you bump into anything bigger than an ANT the front fork will twist and the wheel will wobble.

Else, I have Avon Venom front/rear, have ridden a mere 5000 miles in 4 years (been stationary far too long) BUT they are excellent value for money (IMHO)
because they are high performance tires for high-performance bikes (100++bhp), fit them on a 30bhp bike and they should last a long time and a half.  Smiley
My tires look like new, and hold the air pressure quite nicely.

PS small tip for that rear tire air valve, I bought an "L" adapter from  British supplier called "Holden"

cost GBP 3.95+VAT = US$ 8 more or less

http://www.holden.co.uk/default.asp?mode=bike

but now checking for air isn't the pain it used to be !
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