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Mandated ABS on bikes? (Read 315 times)
dasch
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #15 - 05/13/10 at 09:10:59
 
I tried a a 1200GS BMW with ABS and interlock. It stops like a charm. Mornhm - there's no need to "learn" braking with ABS since it will only engage if you are way out of line with speed and late reaction. I rode this thing around the town, and enjoyed it. ABS never triggered once. Just like in a car, if you hear the ABS roar - your judgement of speed/distance was wrong from the start. You have way to much experience to ever hear it engage. I'm for it.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #16 - 05/13/10 at 11:34:44
 
I was taught in the MSF course you don't emergency brake while in a turn, you straighten up then stop, course this seemed odd to me cause not all roads are straight.  and when it's an emergency, it can happen in the middle of a turn. and running out of road seemed an issue too.  

abs prices need to come down before this becomes mandated. but I guess it wouldn't stop you from buying used bikes without abs
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #17 - 05/13/10 at 12:43:12
 
dasch wrote on 05/13/10 at 09:10:59:
Mornhm - there's no need to "learn" braking with ABS since it will only engage if you are way out of line with speed and late reaction. I rode this thing around the town, and enjoyed it. ABS never triggered once. Just like in a car, if you hear the ABS roar - your judgement of speed/distance was wrong from the start. You have way to much experience to ever hear it engage. I'm for it.


I thought that ABS systems on the BMW (and others) were linked thus making it difficult to use only the back brake or only the front brake. I think that someday these types of systems will be smart enough to be good in all situations, not just emergency braking. I am concerned that as people have gotten used to using their abs, they have stopped thinking ahead to "I need to slow down before I get to the oil slick ahead" or "I need to wait until after this wet spot to apply my brakes if possible" and just come up to intersections and apply their brakes without any thought to the road surface, after all, the abs will take care of that. Just ask any younger driver why they waited until they were on slick pavement until applying their brakes instead of starting early, or ask if they are taught to think about the pavement surface when braking when being taught to drive.

To be honest, I have never used the abs system in a car while driving, and have only had them actuate when I intentionally caused them to actuate, and maybe I'd feel different if I had, but I'm not sure I'm ready for the idea in a MC. There are lots of riders out there with much more experience than I have, and I while I think realistically anyone who is honest would probably admit that in an emergency situation, the abs is the way to go. I'm just not sure that they wouldn't create an emergency depending on how they were programmed.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #18 - 05/13/10 at 12:52:19
 
I don't like anything to be mandated, rewards for good behavior are cool though  Cool
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dasch
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #19 - 05/13/10 at 13:28:27
 
The guy who owns it tried to explain, but I can't remember exactly. There's a different brake force distribution ratio between front and rear, depending on whether you used the lever or foot pedal. Anyhow, whichever brake you touch, darn thing just stops!

Dunno, mornhm my friend... me and a friend took this beamer for a test ride, the friend tried to get the ABS to engage a few times by hard braking - nothing. It would simply and just stop. Good build, Good tires, good weight distibution, integral braking... whatever it is... I see your point though, someone tells this youngster he just bought a bike with fool-proof braking system - and the fool starts seeking for a proof. For most of us here - it's a nice backup in emergencies, like you said.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #20 - 05/13/10 at 13:54:24
 
being experienced riders like most of us here ,we should never have an emergency stop, you should be riding safely and antisipate these things from happening.
That is why police and highway patrol never call accidents accidents,they call them what they are, "Crashes".
But as we all know idiots are out there all the time,some times we can spot them by there actions ,and back off to let them crash without  us. 95% percent of crashes are caused by one thing,following to close. speed being another bigee.
I can only drive a car now ,but you can bet your sweet A$$es ,I am your best friend out there, I always give M/Cs if I am lucky enough to pass one plenty of room. and I take extra care at intersections, you will never be hit by a red Miata with a limey in it.
As for abs brakes ,never got the chance to try them,but from what I have read they work very well ,I have not heard a bad report,but then I only read about BMW ,a bike I still call the Rolls Royce of M/Cs.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #21 - 05/14/10 at 05:50:10
 
Dasch,

I may have to go out and try a beemer again. The last time I rode one was back in 2005 when I was shopping for a new MC. I thought their ST was nicer than the Concours I eventually got, but not three times nicer (cost differential). I'm not looking right now seriously, but if things have changed significantly, it might be worth a new look.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #22 - 05/14/10 at 06:12:09
 
Dasch, I don't know just how BMW does it, but back when Honda had the linked braking system on their sportbike they did it by activating different sets of pistons in the calipers. The rear had two piston sets, one of which was activated by brake torque reaction from the front brake. The front brake had three sets, probably on each of two discs. Rear brake application directly activated one set of pistons on the front and one on the rear. The front brake reaction activated the second set of rear pistons, so there was one piston set front and two rear working. Front brake application directly activated two sets of pistons (of the three) on the front, and the brake reaction activated one in the rear. There were, of course, proportioning valves. The net result was that activation of either control braked both wheels, but the braking was "stronger" on one wheel than the other. Either control could lock its wheel, but I don't know whether either control could lock both wheels. Magazine reports of the time said it worked very well indeed, but there was the usual carping about not being able to use only one brake. But then I used to hear gripes from truckers about front wheel brakes, too, along with the stories about how they would misadjust the brakes so the steer wheels didn't brake. And there were trucks made with a control for slippery roads which reduced front wheel braking.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #23 - 05/14/10 at 07:42:48
 
 I can't see that the idea itself would hurt, but trust me, if the bill was written with the help of the insurance companies there are loopholes or clauses to use as precedents that favor the insurance companies. They're not looking out for us, they're trying to figure out how not to pay out! They've been trying to convince state governments the same thing about "Comparative Fault" legislation for years. "It's for our own good!"  Roll Eyes
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #24 - 05/14/10 at 08:25:44
 
Charon, I really don't know either how BMW did it, that might be the same principle, or they simply let the hydraulic pump and ABS computer handle force distribution. Whatever it is, boy... it works. It looked something like this:

A naked bike, weird to the bone, with all the crazy monolevers, paralevers or whatever they call them. Amazing.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #25 - 05/14/10 at 09:11:49
 
Southpaw wrote on 05/14/10 at 07:42:48:
 I can't see that the idea itself would hurt, but trust me, if the bill was written with the help of the insurance companies there are loopholes or clauses to use as precedents that favor the insurance companies. They're not looking out for us, they're trying to figure out how not to pay out! They've been trying to convince state governments the same thing about "Comparative Fault" legislation for years. "It's for our own good!"  Roll Eyes

+1
and if interlocked, abs braking will prevent stunting on the street, I'm all for it.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #26 - 05/14/10 at 09:38:53
 
Dasch, a while back Fred Rau, in a back-page article for Motorcycle Consumer News, wrote of having mixed feelings about the BMW with the integrated ABS brakes. He said it dropped him once, and saved his bacon once. He said he was driving the bike onto a ferry, which had the obligatory slippery steel deck. At very low speed, he touched the brake (I don't remember which brake); the brakes locked (possibly because of the power booster on the brakes), and the bike went down. In the other case he was running on a freeway in LA somewhere. He looked aside to admire a BMW sports car, and when he looked back the car ahead of him had dramatically slowed. He got on the brakes, said he heard one "chirp" as the ABS took over, then stopped straight, true, and quickly. He credited the ABS for avoiding a crash.

Other articles on ABS say implementing it on a bike is difficult. On cars, it is said the ABS is allowed to quit working as speed drops to about five mph. That is because it becomes more difficult to sense differences in wheel speed at low speeds; cars don't fall down; and those low speeds don't usually cause much damage. Motorcycle systems have to sense speed right down to a stop, because motorcycles DO fall down. My guess is the ABS works well enough from speeds much faster than a walk down through stop, because it already has data to work with. But at very low speeds, such as paddling around a parking lot, the initial lockup which would cause the ABS to start working is itself enough to drop the bike.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #27 - 05/14/10 at 09:51:32
 
I don't think bikes need anti-lock brakes I think there would be more accidents with them,And the price would be way to much.
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #28 - 05/14/10 at 10:23:44
 
I have a chinese scooter that I'm doing some work on for a customer.It has an ABS front disk brake. Not sure if it works, it's just installed where the hose attaches to the caliper. Cool

Can't cost much, these scooters are cheeeaaap! Shocked
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Re: Mandated ABS on bikes?
Reply #29 - 05/14/10 at 10:27:38
 
My buddy as an 04 Beemer with power assisted anti lock brakes. The brakes have caused him to drop it numerous times in the parking lots and his driveway. I dont want to be dropping a $16000 bike. I can live without em. The modules are notorious for going out around 30,000 miles and they cost well over $1000.
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