My 2003 with 5,800 miles was running really well of late, it likes it a bit colder.  It has always started instantly; full choke and 1/8 throttle cold; no choke and ¼ throttle warm.  Yesterday I stopped for gas and, when I pressed the button , the decompression clicked and the starter cranked the motor ¼ turn only.  No lights, no neutral light, nada.  I waited a bit, switched to P; no discernible rear light.  Called Progressive for a free haul to the stealership (very worthwhile $10 pa).  Asked the mechanic to check the battery first (limited experience with Jap modern bikes makes me always suspect the battery) , it was dead.  Bike ran fine on the jumped battery but would not run properly when transferred back to its own.  This shows that a jump start would have got it started, but that it would have been inoperable.  No suitable battery in stock, they installed a new one when it arrived today.  They only billed me ½ hour for the job, which I thought very reasonable.

Is there any way to easily test for imminent battery failure?  It could be quite expensive and is very inconvenient.  I put 3,400 miles in one year (mostly short trips) on this (gel) one,  dunno what the PO did or how old the battery was.

When revved hard, on kickstand, to check the charging, the timing chain made an alarming racket, the mechanic said “they do”; is he right?

have you checked the oil level.   i did mine and the next day the engine took about 6/7 goes to get started, tried to stall all the time etc   did the procedure for checking the oil properly and it was over filled   i did it before on a non level surface   the oil was was slightly over the whole sight glass. i let some out till it was between the lines then  all my starting issues went away   that was after i pulled half the ignition system to peices sooooooo check the simple things first

Overfilling to the level you describe has no effect on starting.  Some of us fill to that level as a matter of choice, I know I do.

 
When on the side stand fill it until the oil is just barely visible at the very bottom edge of the sight glass.  Now you can check your oil level instantly as you approach the bike because you can readily see it.

When upright, oil level IS slightly over the top of the sight glass.  However, get someone to crank the bike while you watch the upright window and you will see that it instantly drops a large amount when the oil goes into circulation.  So, once the bike is running the crank is not splashing in the oil or doing other sorts of "bad things".

Wickers use more oil than normal riders do, it is a given sorta thing -- slightly over filling the window gives you a little more range before having to add some oil.  You have a bit more reaction time before going below the window.  

Because you can easily visually check your oil each time you walk up on the bike, you tend to notice it is down and get some in there before you get dangerously low.

Running out of oil is the real engine killer -- don't go there !!


(also adding oil is less of a pain the ass since you don't need 4 hands to do it, the bike is just sitting on the side stand as normal so you can easily handle it yourself by yourself)

thanks when its on the side stand do the bars need to be straight or over to the left to see any oil in the bottom

my overfill im ashamed to say was alot more then the level you said    a women outside my local car/auto shop filled her engine with oil to the brim  must of thought it needed filling up like most of the other bottles in the engine bay  you can guess the sound when she tried to start it  

Justin, there is an opened engine sitting next to my laptop so let me go look for you and see if I can explain things clearly using just words.

(not the easiest thing to do sometimes)

The aluminum crankcase protects the crank from the oil bath with an oil shelf that blocks the crank cavity off from everything else that is lower down.   It does not block off from behind per se, just below and to the front.  Oil has to have a path to drain out of the cavity because oil is supplied to the crank bearings and the bottom of the piston dome for required lubrication and cooling purposes and it would build up in the cavity otherwise.  

This "block it off" oil shelf exists even with the bottom of the horizontal oil gallery as you view it from outside.   You will note that the top of the oil window is very slightly below this same level.  Oh heck, let's be pessimistic and say it is on the same level, so pessimists can say the oil can touch the shelf when the oil is slightly over filled the way I do it.  

Got to give them pessimists something to worry about,  otherwise it frustrates them.

Remember, crank the bike up and the oil window empties because the oil goes into circulation.  The functioning oil level drops below the oil window.  So the running oil level is normally at least a half an inch to an inch below the oil shelf that blocks the crank off from the oil pool.

OK, let's play worse case make believe.   I park the bike facing very strongly (30 plus degrees) down hill with the engine off (can't really do that because the side stand would fold up, but it's a make believe situation anyway).  I put several inches of oil into the crank case enclosure portion by doing this and it is just sitting there when I crank the bike over.

Splish splash and the bike cranks up -- oil is splashed backwards by the crank over to the open gear section on the inside of the case for the 1-2 seconds it takes for the oil pump and the gears and every thing else to pull the oil level down out of reach as you watched it do through the oil window a bit ago.

That's the only static way you can get any amount of oil into the crank cavity portion of the gear case.  Park it pointing very steeply down hill ....  uphill or flat won't work as the oil can't get in.  

Reality wise, hitting the brakes very hard or going very steeply downhill while riding could put some oil into the crank cavity and I suspect it happens all the time and the oil splish splashes and drains right back out.

If you put an extra whole quart or more of oil in the bike you'd get some standing oil in there, but not enough to impede the starter from cranking the bike up.  It would run and smoke a lot until it puked the excess out the breather tube.

Remember, Ed did this gross overfill thing on the first Dragon run after we glued his crack shut as he overfilled a part of a quart's worth (he had an oil cooler on his bike and that complicates the fill thing somewhat).  I watched him smoke and puke oil out his dump tube, but he was running at 65 mph and keeping up while he did it .... and his bike started just fine.

Sounded really good to us when it cranked right back up, it did ...

If you put an extra whole quart or more of oil in the bike you'd get some standing oil in there, but not enough to impede the starter from cranking the bike up.


First, thank you for your very precise & concise reply. A face to face with hands & stuff woulda made that a lot easier on you, but I think I got it.


You said
"
If you put an extra whole quart or more of oil in the bike you'd get some standing oil in there, but not enough to impede the starter from cranking the bike up." & I agree & never did disagree with the start up part.\
I did believe that overfilling would lead to foamed oil, but didnt know what I needed top know about the case design.
Again, thanks for the well thought out response. I wish people would go to that level of thinking in the political responses.