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Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #2 (Read 356 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #2
01/28/10 at 11:21:22
 
 
No downside issues seen so far ....

Wait, that's not true -- when you are going to wick you some really high rpms you will need to spend special attention to sealing your right side cover upper oil gallery gasket area or it can ooze out some oil at the thin gasket section at the top of the gallery because of the extraordinary oil pressure you will be running at those higher rpms.  

Remember, our bike has no overpressure bypass valve at all, you get whatever the pump puts out at both low and high rpms.

I had to go back in and reapply sealant to that area, let it cure some at the "just pulled together" stage until it had good mechanical strength then the next day go to 100 inch pounds followed by re torquing once a week to 100 inch pounds as it settled in over the heat up cool down cycles.

Anyway, apart from that high rpm oil ooze (and that ooze could still be a function of the 50 cent homemade paper gasket I am using rather than the $17 stock Suzuki gasket) I have had no downsides so far.


Standard Speedo reported mph in each gear

First gear     --    30-35 mph
Second gear --    50-55 mph
Third gear    --     65-70 mph
Fourth gear   --    95-??? mph
Fifth gear      --    now used as cruising overdrive only



What has changed?  I've gotten more used to hearing the engine sounds at high rpms and I am more willing to go higher up in engine speed range.   Mind you, the bike will still run fine if used at the old chugger rpm levels, it just has a different character if spun up to speed in each gear.  It is wicked fast.

Now, as far as you Dragon guys go.  We won't have any straight road up there to play with, but riddle me this ....

Assume we run up our gears at about the same rate ( I may be a little quicker going through each gear, but we will see about that) how far ahead of you would I be when we each wound up through third gear?

Lastly, I have a big fat tire on my bike that causes me to under-report on the stock speedo's reading by about 5 miles per hour.  Lancer will likely be bringing his Veypor unit with him at Dragon time so I can see if I really can break the ton in fourth gear using a stock drive belt set up.

I like the Savage a whole lot more now -- so much so I am actually considering selling the XV535 come spring time.  It has similar power to what the Savage has now but is longer, heavier and not as nimble.
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #1 - 01/28/10 at 11:44:21
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/28/10 at 11:21:22:
  Standard Speedo reported mph in each gear

First gear     --    30-35 mph
Second gear --    50-55 mph
Third gear    --     65-70 mph
Fourth gear   --    95-??? mph
Fifth gear      --    now used as cruising overdrive only



I guess those are your shift points...  Roll Eyes

And who said we have a rev limiter?

Now someone had talked about a mod in the squid crowd to add in an external oil line.  And you had talked about a bypass filter.  Now I think you've found the right application for it.  Put in a pressure bypass off the service pressure port up front into a bypass filter up to the head.   Cool
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #2 - 01/28/10 at 13:14:08
 
Depends if I am in a hurry.   There is no need to do that every time, most times there are cagers or speed limits in the way out there somewhere.

I am tending to bust every speed limit everywhere
without even intending to do ... it is very easy to do that when you hit the city speed limit in first gear and by the time you finish shifting into second good you are approaching the national "general" speed limit.

And it gets bad when you catch yourself well up in third gear inside a residential street type area just because it feels sooooooo good ....


=========


I'll not play with oil system or anything until after I come back from the Dragon, I want the guys to see the bike as it was put back together and run for six months.  I'll be letting folks ride it, as I did on the first Dragon run back when folks didn't really understand big tires (they learned, didn't they?  They rode my bike and it didn't kill them outright, then MMRanch put his on and so on and so on).  

Right now they got no frame of reference about the Stage 2 cam performance shift other than "words on paper".

They ain't heard it snarl yet ....
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #3 - 01/28/10 at 14:50:34
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/28/10 at 13:14:08:
I'll not play with oil system or anything until after I come back from the Dragon


By then you'll need an oil cooler, misserable it will be.

I gots mine, just waitin' for it to turn hot again.
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #4 - 01/28/10 at 15:04:01
 
I'll switch back to full synthetic soon for that very reason.   I will have finished my required cam break-in miles by then, so back to the heat proof blue jug stuff I go.


(plus two ounces of this stuff of course, gotta have my shot glass full of ZDDP booster sauce ....)


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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #5 - 01/28/10 at 16:22:26
 
Quote:
And it gets bad when you catch yourself well up in third gear inside a residential street type area just because it feels sooooooo good ....
=========
They ain't heard it snarl yet ....



Ain't it just fun  ? !
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #6 - 01/28/10 at 23:24:54
 
would you use that stuff after a replacement of the cam chain
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #7 - 01/28/10 at 23:36:27
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/28/10 at 15:04:01:
I'll switch back to full synthetic soon for that very reason.   I will have finished my required cam break-in miles by then, so back to the heat proof blue jug stuff I go.


The blue jug isn't good enough for me.
Mobil 1 wasn't good enough.
I gonna order some amsoil and klotz to see whats up before the oil cooler.
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #8 - 01/29/10 at 06:40:29
 

Buy you some Klotz, that way if you burn some you know it isn't going to hurt you since it was developed and tested as a two stroke oil.  

Plus it's magic .....


hmmmmm ....


Hey, if you do that, try out all the magic oils and all the normal oils, you will be the only one of us entitled to have an opinion on the subject -- the only one that has "really done it".   You could become the undisputed oil authority on the list.

Go 'slagen Go 'slagen Go 'slagen Go 'slagen Go 'slagen Go !!!
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #9 - 01/29/10 at 07:17:17
 
Jabman,

ZDDP is recognized by SAE as the primary and "most effective" of all the anti wear, anti galling additives that was ever put into motor oil.

ALL the racing folks swear it is needed in motor oil or you lose the film your high lubrication stress points like valve tappets, cam apexes, cam chain pins, etc.

It is being removed from our oil by EPA because it kills type 2 catalytic converters and the replacement additives being used simply don't do the job in older designed engines (like our Savage).

This red stuff is pure ZDDP concentrate in a bottle.  I discovered it while checking into the WEB CAM requirements for break in oil on the high lift cam I just put into my bike.  It is a cheap source of the ZDDP I need to keep my stuff healthy.

Do you need it?  Maybe not -- if you have a stock cam and you don't spin your engine up any.

As Lancer and I can attest -- if you spin a stock engine up to higher rpms and  speeds you can stress the lube film on the apex zone of the stock cam and surface spauling may begin.  

These little stress fractures on the skin of the metal signal the eventual death of both your cam and your tappets.  They start out very very small and grow with time .....

And, like Verslagen I have come to the conclusion that no standard oil is really good enough for a wicker engine and we are each in search of Eldorado, the perfect wicking oil.

The ZDDP additive was my way of getting to 1850 PPM of ZDDP, which is what WEB CAM was getting out of their premium racing oil that they recommended.  Racing car oil has none of the rest of the stuff a motorcycle engine needs, so I bump me up a good standard synthetic bike rated oil to the very high ZDDP levels required while Verslagen searches for Eldorado by mail ordering quarts & quarts of different sorts of magic oil to try out.

He's our expert, the only one who has actually done it ....
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #10 - 01/29/10 at 08:04:49
 
ZDDP is only good to 1850 rpm?
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #11 - 01/29/10 at 08:17:38
 
bill67 wrote on 01/29/10 at 08:04:49:
ZDDP is only good to 1850 rpm?

thats 1850"P"PM
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #12 - 06/12/10 at 06:17:43
 

This is an addendum to the last cam report, stuck on at the end of everything because it wasn't realized fully until later on.



I thought I had some issues with the stock petcock "running me out of gas" unnecessarily when blowing down the interstate.

This prompted a Raptor petcock switch out which did fix that particular symptom.   However the root cause might have been fuel flow related rather than a bad stock petcock as I use more gas now quicker when I whap that throttle wide open.

I mentioned very early on that gas mileage was affected
(that extra energy had to come from somewhere).


I get 38 to 40 mpg when doing my normal whack it wide open around town type action.

I can get 50 mpg on country road 55 mph cruising in no particular hurry.

Interstate mpg at 75-80 is back down to 38 mpg (high air friction and all)


=============


Good gas mileage is NOT the reason people buy these cams.   But it needed to be clearly stated for the record so folks would know what they were getting into.

I now carry a 27 oz metal water bottle filled with gasoline in my saddle bag at all times now as I cannot get 100 miles out of a tank any more, 80-90 miles is more like reality for me now.   This is only 10 additional miles of additional reserve but it has proven right handy to have on two occasions now.

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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #13 - 06/12/10 at 07:29:32
 
Performance comes at a price. Ive seen domonstrations of the fuel pumps on funny cars.. like a blasted fire hose. Glad youve found the combo for hot rodding it up & are happy w/ it.


Anyway, apart from that high rpm oil ooze (and that ooze could still be a function of the 50 cent homemade paper gasket I am using rather than the $17 stock Suzuki gasket) I have had no downsides so far.


Thats what I call full disclosure..
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Re: Lancer Stage 2 Cam -- wicker report at month #
Reply #14 - 06/12/10 at 15:01:18
 
The stock Suzuki Gasket didn't help either on mine. I had the same oozing around the bolt by the front cylinder base nut. I went through 4 OEM gaskets in a year, and could not solve the problem, until i used some high temp red gasket sealant for up to 600 degrees and I put it AROUND the bolt holes on the case AND the cover all the way to the next bolt towards the back of the cylinder and towards the oil filler cap, and I put it on WET as soon as I was done applying. I know that is not how it's supposed to be done, but it worked for me. Apparently while it's still wet, it goes better in the finest uneven spots, that not even your eye can see. Now towards the back of the cylinder is where the oil gallery starts, and I REALLY tried to apply as little as possible, not to get anything into the oil passage later on. I did let the bike sit overnight to let it cure. Like I said, I did everything as thin as possible, I only had very minimal squeezing out as I bolted everything down. I did a criss cross pattern starting by the problem bolt with just the socket in my hand, just a tad. Then next sequence with still just the socket in hand to as hard as my thumb and index finger could do. Third sequence to about 6 Nm, and fourth sequence to 12 Nm. That was the last time I touched it, I never retorqued, as I thought after several test runs being still dry, I'll leave it alone. So far the darn thing is finally bone dry! I was about to give up on it. I still don't know the cause, why I went through so many gaskets in a year, and it never worked. Although I observed that it oozed primarily around that bolt by the front cylinder base nut between the gasket and the case, not the gasket and the cover. The reason for that is, that the OEM gasket has some gray sealant stuff in that area, but on the case side the stuff around the bolt hole doesn't make a full circle. But it does on the cover side. So that's where i applied some more goo, to make a full circle, and also put goo on the bolt threads. I did put the rubberized washer under the bolt head, which still doesn't make any sense why it is on it anyways. At least not to me. However since 500 miles I am ooze-free for the first time.
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