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kamikaze intake not so divine (Read 353 times)
jabman
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #15 - 12/20/09 at 00:18:26
 
isn't turbulence required to mix the air and fuel for combustion
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BurnPgh
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #16 - 12/20/09 at 00:46:10
 
from what i understand yes...to an extent. Too much turblulence will disrupt the air velocity and create less vacuum in the carb and it will function less efficiently. Increased velocity will increase the pull of fuel in the carb and increase airflow resulting in more air + more fuel = more bang. The DJ turbulator from my limited understanding increases velocity while decreasing the turbulence that would otherwise come with it so relative to eachother only the velocity is increased resulting in the above "bang" result. But I could be entirely wrong. Im really just going by seat of the pants with the stuff im doing. Really I only understand the basics of what Im doing with all of my mods but my limited understanding and positive results from those who've done it before encourage me to proceed and learn along the way. Anyway...hope I helped...If not, someone will come along and shape us both up, Im sure.

PS - I also plan to put a SS screen between the carb and intake manifold. Supposedly the screen will help atomize the fuel. If so that would address the fuel/air mixing issue with the Dj turbulator.
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diamond jim
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #17 - 01/18/10 at 22:18:01
 
BurnPbh, give me a call and see if I can help you figure out where improvements can be made.  I never tried mine with the oldfeller technique.  Nah, WAY to restrictive for a higher flowing than stock setup.  

The turbulator is simply the honeycomb screen that is in the air inlet side for the carb intake boot.  The length of the individual tubes of the honeycomb structure should be 7 times the diameter of the tubes.  Each honeycomb cell does it's part in straighteneng out the air.  The summation of deturbulized air exiting the screen, each running in parallel, doesn't necessarily speed up the air as much as it removes the elements from stocl form that cause turbulence and thus slowing down the air to begin with.  That is stage 1.

Every bit as important is Stage 2.  The air intake boot.  The venturi effect caused by a progressively narrowing of the intake between the turbulator and the mouth of the carb does wonders.

So, step 1 (remove turbulence) and step 2 (pre-carb venturi) combine to produce high velocity air which means inreased vacuum.   The increased vacuum helps to pull the fuel up through the jet, while the momentum of the faster air atomize the gas better and improves cylinder filling.  

Sure, any intake adjustment is going to shift power from one rpm range to another.  But that's the great thing about the LS650.  95% of your riding is gonna be between about 1100-4200 rpms.  The trade off is that this intake design, when used with proper filtration,  works well until the overall design starts to become restrictive at about 5100 rpms.  But, honestly, who the hell spends much time riding above 5100 rpms.  At times that I thought I was I found out I was only pushing about 4200.

I used what I learned from the successful bike project to make an intake for my '04 Yukon.  I spend 98% of the time between 800-3000 rpms.  I designed it so that I'm getting some serious air velocity from start off and through my normal driving rpm ranges.  I never hit 4800 rpms on the Yukon so I don't care about the the airway starting to get restrictive at that range cause i don't ever drive in that range.  

I like having max intake velocity at start off (tons of torque) and at all of my usual riding rpm ranges cause I love the torque.  If I wanted to ride with my bike or Yukon at 5000-6000 rpm all the time, I's just go with an open velocity stack.

Regarding the filtration material.  Your pulling more air at any given rpm with the turbulator setup so the filtration material has to match the new airflow demands.  That the tricky part.  

Here's the setup on my Yukon.  Stock, the truck was wimpy in that it lacked torque at start off but started to kick in at about 2000 rpm.

First- stock intake: notice how open the free flowing the are passage is:



Modded intake designed for increased air velocity at lower rpms:


There are three taper points with each adding a little acceleration although the narrower length contributes the most amount of velocity increase.  I have a turbulator installed at the mouth of the narrower tube.  The length of the narrowed portion is the main trick.  Make it say 3" longer and I got gobs upon gobs of torque from start to maybe 2000 rpm then it starts to become restrictive.  Make it say 3" shorter and torque doesn't kick in until about 1700 but engine runs fine at 4500 rpms (which I never do unless i'm doing 110mph- shift points are about 2800 to 3200).  In fact, similar to the bike, half inch increments in length in either direction produce a corresponding change in the powerband.  The idea is to determine the powerband you are in 90% of the time and design the intake to maximize flow for that range.  This setup in the Yukon gives me gobs of throw-you-back-into-the-seat torque from start thru all the shift points and does great at 85mph.  Above 85mph, say 90mph, the engine runs 200 rpm higher to achieve the same speed which is evidence of the intake starting to get to hit the restrictive range.  But I don't drive past 80 and spend only about 10% at the speed anyways.  Much more fun pulling away at the stop lights and driving around town with gobs of torque.  
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« Last Edit: 01/18/10 at 23:22:02 by diamond jim »  
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diamond jim
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #18 - 01/18/10 at 23:38:04
 
Arthur wrote on 12/18/09 at 19:19:22:
BP, mine runs fine with just a cone. Plenty of power, no problems, starts right up.  Experimentation with imaginative designs is fun, but without dyno tests that you can trust, done by experienced technicians, you can't be sure if the experiment is an improvement unless its dramatic. This has been stated in many articles over the years.  This is because of all the variables encountered in a amateur street test: varying road conditions, barometric differences from one day to the next, variations in engine temps from one test to the next, differences in the way the rider operates the bike from one test to the next,  variations in accelerations, and most importantly, the prejudice of the rider who designed the improvement.  Because of all these and more factors, you can't be sure that any slight improvement is the result of the new design without proper testing.

If I recall correctly, DJ took the bike to a dyno and it showed dramatic improvement in HP, which was contested by others who were suspect of the figures and person who ran the dyno.  I could be wrong about this, but I remember something like that was in the thread.


Gort, I don't recall anything about my dyno results being contested or the figures being suspect.  Maybe that was some coversation that went on a few months later when I was out of commission.  Please, elighten me, refreshen my failing memory and direct me to those threads.  I do remember saying, prior to the dyno run, that any dyno run posted on here would inherently be argued against by a few members for what ever reason (dyno model, humidity, temp, etc.). I think it was you, in fact, that said that was nonsense.  So I posted anyways.  Maybe it's just in some people's  personality to argue.  I don't know.  Kind of like the air filter test stuff.  I remember someone proclaiming air filter tests where the sponsored company's air filter results were gospel to some and that the competition's filters were poor performers.  But please direct me to these posts you speak of.  Thanks.
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