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kamikaze intake not so divine (Read 353 times)
BurnPgh
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kamikaze intake not so divine
12/18/09 at 18:17:44
 
Needing to tinker, and looking to match a performance intake design with my soon to be performance exhaust and other mods I decided to try my hand at Diamond Jims kamikaze design. I opted to combine OFs filter design with DJs design. I found a container at the local dollar store which fit perfectly into the intake tube and has a screw on cap. First I went ahead and incorporated the "turbulator" into the design. Doing so left about 2in from the top of the containers screwed on lid to the top of the honeycombed straws. I cut out the middle of the containters cap and left a lip in the lid to fix a screen so the poly batting wouldnt bulge out.
Test 1 - With the batting just crammed between the turbulator and screen It was far too restrictive and I couldnt get past 1/4 throttle without very serious bogging down. Verge of stall type bogging. And an immense smell of unbunrt gas.
Test 2 - Reduced the filter material by about half. Still resting on the straws behind the screen. A marked improvement over the first test but still restrictive at half throttle. Bogging was less pronounced but still serious enough to limit my travel to around the neighborhood.
Test 3 - I wasn't sure if the material was too restrictive or if i was just running super lean so I ditched the filter material all together. It ran well with no bogging or surging but was noticeably lean (lack of power). My conclusion was that the problem lay in the filter material resting against the turbulator.
Test 4 - I fixed a second screen inside the container i used allowing the filter material to be lightly compressed. 2in of fluffy batting compressed into 1in with another 3/4-1in open space from the batting to the turbulator. Ran very well but still serious bogging at about 2/3-3/4 throttle. It was more massive bog followed by a massive surge of power. Felt like I was running out of gas as soon as i hit the main circuit. From idle to 3/4 there was a noted increase in throttle response and "get up and go" I tried this same set up with varying amount of batting as filter material with no serious improvement.

I also tried fixing both screens in the lid so as to compress the filter material into a thin sheet but I couldnt get the lid to thread on. I will continue tinkering to see if that can be managed. But for now this paragraph is somewhat irrelevent.

At this point I don't know if it's working well and my main is too lean for this set up or if the filter becomes too restrictive at higher revs. Thoughts? Opinions?

For the sake of simplicity and to have a real ride in the last hour or so of pre freezing cold I opted to (for now) throw the airbox back in. I did retain the turbulator and can attest that even with a stock filter and airbox setup the turbulator shows a notable though not necessarily glorious increase in general throttle response. Just FYI.
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #1 - 12/18/09 at 18:27:04
 
If you want good breathing and good filtration,... you need surface area...  
If you're going small for cosmetic reasons,... it will require a compromise....
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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BurnPgh
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #2 - 12/18/09 at 18:57:30
 
Not cosmetic so much as the restricted area under the seat what with wires going every which way and relocating the black box under the seat. I had intended to add a simple k&n cone eventually anyway. I just wanted to tinker and see what I could do before i payed for a filter. Anyway...I geuss the surface area is the reason DJ went with the pink dome filter design initially. Geuss I ought to go ahead and get the cone then?
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #3 - 12/18/09 at 19:19:22
 
BP, mine runs fine with just a cone. Plenty of power, no problems, starts right up.  Experimentation with imaginative designs is fun, but without dyno tests that you can trust, done by experienced technicians, you can't be sure if the experiment is an improvement unless its dramatic. This has been stated in many articles over the years.  This is because of all the variables encountered in a amateur street test: varying road conditions, barometric differences from one day to the next, variations in engine temps from one test to the next, differences in the way the rider operates the bike from one test to the next,  variations in accelerations, and most importantly, the prejudice of the rider who designed the improvement.  Because of all these and more factors, you can't be sure that any slight improvement is the result of the new design without proper testing.

If I recall correctly, DJ took the bike to a dyno and it showed dramatic improvement in HP, which was contested by others who were suspect of the figures and person who ran the dyno.  I could be wrong about this, but I remember something like that was in the thread.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #4 - 12/18/09 at 19:46:48
 
the thing about dyno testing is 1 - No money 2 - Every time someone here does one and posts the results the results are always disputed anyway and the operators credentials called into question. Without being biased toward my design...mostly because it isnt my design, I definately notice considerable differences even just using the turbulator with an otherwise stock intake set up. As I said the difference is noticable but less than glorious (ie - im not going to the drag strip anytime soon). Im fairly satisfied with the results Ive accomplished in my experimenting. My only concern now is why am i bogging down on the main circuit as the improvement on the low end was considerable (again, not hitting the drag strip, but while im shifting into 2nd at 20-25mph with stock intake I was easily up to 30 and pushing 35 before shifting with the kamikaze and I wasnt trying to gun it any more than i usually do. Acceleration was also markedly improved). So there's 2 options - Filter material is too restrictive for high rpms or its extremely unrestrictive and causing me to be super lean. I know the 155 i have now is still slightly lean in a stock setup (stock minus the essentially baffle-less SE muffler) so Im kind of betting on that. I will continue to experiment. My "feels like im running out of gas" comment serves as an indicator to me. Just looking for second opinions.

Edit - Then again, the fact that it ran well even if noticeably lean without any filter would indicate the filter material being restrictive at higher rpms...hmmm.... Huh
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #5 - 12/18/09 at 19:53:21
 
I researched DJ's posts and he did not do a dyno on the experimental intake he made.  

I misunderstood you to be complaining about his design not working well, in your post at the beginning of your thread and because of the title you put on the thread.  Thats why I commented.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #6 - 12/19/09 at 00:04:30
 
If you suspect a super lean condition, couldnt you run it up into that state & hit the kill, pull the plug & know if it was really way lean? Or tell it isnt?

Guess what Im askin is, would it help to look at the plug?
If not, why not. Not a challenge, Im just trying to learn a bit here.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #7 - 12/19/09 at 02:54:54
 
  That  turbulator is like putting one size smaller carb on its helps in the low end but you lose on the top end.I tried that back in 1980. On a Moto Guzzi and Harley,with same results with both.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #8 - 12/19/09 at 10:33:26
 
I could do a plug chop but even with no chrome head covers I cant get the plug out without removing the tank so it's a kind of intense road side thing. I could but its easier to just full throttle then back off and see if the mid gives me a kick in the pants. And Theres 6 inches of snow outside right now so im not going anywhere in/on anything.

bill - the turbulator you mentioned in Djs posts was IIRC a "swurl-up" or "vortex" as opposed to the honeycomb Im messing with. Or have you done the honeycomb thing aswell?
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #9 - 12/19/09 at 10:45:12
 
  It the same thing. If not whats the difference.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #10 - 12/19/09 at 16:04:16
 
I can only imagine the vortex type products would increase air turbulence. In any case...$1.07 beats $15 any way you slice it.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #11 - 12/19/09 at 16:23:13
 
 Did you ever try the tornado in a car?
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william h krumpen
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #12 - 12/19/09 at 17:41:02
 
Bill that scam was exposed a long time ago.  It does absolutely nothing except cost you money.  There have been detailed test results published on the "Tornado".  Once this fraud was exposed, you started to see these things sitting on discount tables in auto parts stores.  As with other frauds, the many people who buy them refuse to admit failed results, and claim they feel a big difference.  Thats why controlled testing is necessary:

Here is one of the the tests...Vortex devices reduce gas mileage:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1802932.html?page=2
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #13 - 12/19/09 at 18:17:13
 
  I had a tornado in my Oldsmobile and my Nissan truck and the magnet on the fuel line,I can testified they don't do any good.
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Re: kamikaze intake not so divine
Reply #14 - 12/19/09 at 18:43:36
 
TornadoFuelSaver
Tornadofuelsaver.com, $70
THEY CLAIM: "... an increase in gas mileage--up to 28%!!!" "Dynometer [sic] testing demonstrates an increase of 4-13 horsepower."
BOTTOM LINE: Normally, we want less turbulence in the intake, not more.

I suspected as much. According to DJ the honeycomb acts primarily to reduce turbulence and increase air velocity. I can't say for certain on that score but I can attest that (up to 2/3-3/4 throttle) I got up to speed more quickly and easily with the kamikaze intake and even with the stock intake setup and just the turbulator noticed an increase in throttle response. Supposed to be 40* on thursday. I'll do more experimenting with filter material and pick up a 157 main from the nearest shop (even though I hate the place) and let y'all know what the deal is.
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