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Smoking Issue (Read 1523 times)
Routy
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #30 - 12/09/09 at 05:23:22
 
Quote:
there is no way you can get the rings lined up to the grooves in the bore.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably not a serious reply, but there better not be any vertical grooves (or even a deep scratch) whatsoever in the barrel, or you have definently found not only the oil problem, but also lack of expression ! Shocked Embarrassed
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Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #31 - 12/09/09 at 07:22:59
 
Routy wrote on 12/09/09 at 05:23:22:
Quote:
there is no way you can get the rings lined up to the grooves in the bore.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably not a serious reply, but there better not be any vertical grooves (or even a deep scratch) whatsoever in the barrel, or you have definently found not only the oil problem, but also lack of expression ! Shocked Embarrassed




He's talking about the microgrooves that ARE the seating in process,
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T Mack 1 - FSO
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #32 - 12/09/09 at 12:53:19
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 12/09/09 at 07:22:59:
Routy wrote on 12/09/09 at 05:23:22:
Quote:
there is no way you can get the rings lined up to the grooves in the bore.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably not a serious reply, but there better not be any vertical grooves (or even a deep scratch) whatsoever in the barrel, or you have definently found not only the oil problem, but also lack of expression ! Shocked Embarrassed




He's talking about the microgrooves that ARE the seating in process,


Bingo.....  

Routy,
 Sorry,  many times I talk/type like everyone is a tech.  We usually leave out what we think is understood.   Lancer said the bore was good, but the instant a piston moves up & down there are micro grooves.  

T.M.
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LANCER
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #33 - 12/09/09 at 19:53:21
 
I have been diverted the last couple of days with electrical wiring for the kitchen makeover project.
I have not been able to find my compression check kit...I thought I had one ...... could be living in a fatanacy tool world though...I think I need to pick one up tomorrrow.  I will check for cylinder pressure then.  I suspect that compression is adequate, based on how it is running.  
Power seems decent when considering the oil blowing through the engine.    I need to drop a needle size; power drops off from about 1/2 throttle.  I will take it down the road again in the morning after changing the needle and see if the oil blow is decreasing or not.
The cyliinder walls were in reallyl good condition when pulled apart (one scratch on the wall of about 2.5-3" from a piece of grit of some sort but it is of no concern).   The crosshatching of the bore/hone job done previously was still visible on about 40% of the cyl. wall.  I need to call Boretech about doing another hone and new rings or if the current ones are ok.   I will do that tomorrow.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #34 - 12/10/09 at 02:47:56
 
The simple old test as usually oil comes from two places..rings from below for valve seals from above.  To test have some one follow you.  Get out and get on it (throttle)  when you slap the throttle shut like for a shift if you get a big puff of smoke it is pulling oil down through the valve seals if it s just constant then it is probably sacked out rings.

If I remember right Greg determined his were just plain sacked out and putting the old ones back on did not function as they were supposed to.
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LANCER
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #35 - 12/10/09 at 03:21:35
 
smokin_blue wrote on 12/10/09 at 02:47:56:
The simple old test as usually oil comes from two places..rings from below for valve seals from above.  To test have some one follow you.  Get out and get on it (throttle)  when you slap the throttle shut like for a shift if you get a big puff of smoke it is pulling oil down through the valve seals if it s just constant then it is probably sacked out rings.

If I remember right Greg determined his were just plain sacked out and putting the old ones back on did not function as they were supposed to.


The engine only had about 8k miles on it since the new piston with bore/hone + silicone carbide treatment.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #36 - 12/10/09 at 05:36:47
 
LANCER wrote on 12/10/09 at 03:21:35:
smokin_blue wrote on 12/10/09 at 02:47:56:
The simple old test as usually oil comes from two places..rings from below for valve seals from above.  To test have some one follow you.  Get out and get on it (throttle)  when you slap the throttle shut like for a shift if you get a big puff of smoke it is pulling oil down through the valve seals if it s just constant then it is probably sacked out rings.

If I remember right Greg determined his were just plain sacked out and putting the old ones back on did not function as they were supposed to.


The engine only had about 8k miles on it since the new piston with bore/hone + silicone carbide treatment.




Yet the rings had folded ?
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Routy
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #37 - 12/10/09 at 06:06:00
 
Ok,......it was a serious reply, so are we in the thinking that the rings never turn on a piston ? I hope we all know they do.
Maybe I been outta this business too long ! I never heard the term "microgrooves" when I was in the business.

Routy wrote on 12/09/09 at 05:23:22:
Quote:
there is no way you can get the rings lined up to the grooves in the bore.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably not a serious reply, but there better not be any vertical grooves (or even a deep scratch) whatsoever in the barrel, or you have definently found not only the oil problem, but also lack of expression ! Shocked Embarrassed

Back to top
 
 

Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #38 - 12/10/09 at 09:41:32
 
Im creative that way.
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T Mack 1 - FSO
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #39 - 12/10/09 at 11:58:49
 
Routy wrote on 12/10/09 at 06:06:00:
Ok,......it was a serious reply, so are we in the thinking that the rings never turn on a piston ? I hope we all know they do.
Maybe I been outta this business too long ! I never heard the term "microgrooves" when I was in the business.



They can rotate ... yes.  At less till seated.  But......  is there really anyway to see it they rotate once they're seated.....????  Huh  

I hazard a gues-stimate that once seated they do not.....  otherwise they would never be seated....  yes/no???
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Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
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smokin_blue
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #40 - 12/10/09 at 18:06:37
 
Here is the one I was thinking of.  If this didn't copy right start reading about page 7.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1193681509/90

oh ya I might have misspoke earlier...it was Savage_greg that had the problem.  Sacked out rings in a new hone job.  No go after 130 miles on rebuild.
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LANCER
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #41 - 12/11/09 at 08:41:37
 
I just got off the phone with a tech dude from Boretech and his thoughts were, considering the details of what has transpired, that this is probably an oil ring issue and recommended a new ring set along with a ball honing of the cylinder wall.  
Perhaps the ring lost some tension during the process of disassembly and reassembly.

He suggested that I take a magnified closeup look at the ring set before removing from the piston to see if the problem can be identified.

So back out she comes.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #42 - 12/11/09 at 08:50:48
 
Next time you talk to him, ask about rings rotating in the bore. I say generally not, but that an occasional ring will.
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RidgeRunner13
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #43 - 12/11/09 at 08:54:15
 
Check out these- http://www.totalseal.com/.  I've used these in 4 cyl. race engines that turn 8k & they are great. Used the same set for 3 seasons & still only had  2-3% leakdown, compression 185-195.

IMHO, these are worth the money. They also pass less contaminants into your oil. Cool
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T Mack 1 - FSO
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Re: Smoking Issue
Reply #44 - 12/11/09 at 11:59:48
 
LANCER wrote on 12/11/09 at 08:41:37:
I just got off the phone with a tech dude from Boretech ......................recommended a new ring set along with a ball honing of the cylinder wall.  
.....................


T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 12/08/09 at 10:00:28:
My grandfather use to say,  "you take the piston out of the jug, buy new rings and hone the bore.   You'll be sorry if you don't".     Yes, I have not always heeded his words  Huh.   And, he's was right.



I can feel my late grandfather pointing his finger at us from up above.....
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Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink
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