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% power loss, chain verses belt (Read 399 times)
bill67
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #15 - 11/20/09 at 15:32:17
 
Years ago I read you lose 10% of the power with shaft drive. You are reversing the force.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #16 - 11/20/09 at 15:43:30
 
The problem with the efficiency of a shaft drive on motorcycles has to do with the gearing required to change directions. Motorcycle engine crankshafts and transmission output shafts generally run transversely, as does the axle. The drive shaft runs fore-and-aft. So a bevel gear is used to change the transverse motion of the transmission to the longitudinal motion of the shaft, and another bevel gear changes the shaft direction to the wheel direction. Some motorcycles such as Gold Wings, Moto Guzzis, BMWs and some others have longitudinal crankshafts, so only have one direction change.

Way back when the Wright brothers were designing their Flyer, they were told that chain drive was pretty lossy. They did a good bit of experimenting, and as I recall reading they came up with an efficiency of about 95% for chain drive. They went on to successfully drive the propellers of the Flyer with chains.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #17 - 11/20/09 at 15:54:48
 
I understand the inefficiency of shaft drive,....its not the shaft, but the gears that involved w/ it. We're talking a gearbox here, in which we have friction from not only the gears meshing together having to squeeze the oil out, but all the bearings involved, which also have resistence from the oil they run in.

Now here is what really surprised me,.... years ago already. Why are the most efficient cars all front wheel drive ? Supposedly its because all the shafts and gears are turning inline or parallel w/ each other. Supposedly anytime the power turns a 90 deg corner,...such as a ring and pinion,... such as in a shaft drive motorcycle, more power is lost than if the shafts are all turning in the same "plane".....is that the right word?
If that is all true, I really don't understand that.

On edit,
Sorry, the above post says most of it all. It wadn't there when I left Wink
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Rich
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #18 - 11/20/09 at 16:50:25
 
Okay, I think I understand what ya'll are saying then. But ya'll are referring to the typical v-twin where the cylinders are in line with the bike frame correct? If so, then in the case of my brother's GL500 where it is a transverse v-twin, would the shaft be more efficient than a belt or chain? Just curious not trying to spark an argument or anything.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #19 - 11/20/09 at 16:56:32
 
Shaft drive has to overcome the bearings & oil, so it loses a certain amount of horsepower. Until today, I would have said chain is the most efficient, then belt, then shaft..& I woulda been wrong.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #20 - 11/20/09 at 17:18:40
 
 Drive shaft also loses energy trying to lift the back end of the motorcycle.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #21 - 11/21/09 at 05:10:29
 
Ok, I'll bite,....
why/how is the shaft drive trying to lift the back of the motorcycle ? Roll Eyes

bill67 wrote on 11/20/09 at 17:18:40:
 Drive shaft also loses energy trying to lift the back end of the motorcycle.

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Rich
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bill67
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #22 - 11/21/09 at 05:19:47
 
 Instead of the back going down when accelerating It is lifted up,Drive  one and you will see.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #23 - 11/21/09 at 05:31:56
 
Not doubting your word, but can you answer the "why" part ?

I'm just thinking that no matter what drive it is,.....when the power is applied in a forward gear,  2 things are trying to happen,..... the rear wheel is trying to turn forward, and the front wheel in trying to lift. Which ever has the least resistence, is going to happen Huh

bill67 wrote on 11/21/09 at 05:19:47:
 Instead of the back going down when accelerating It is lifted up,Drive  one and you will see.

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Rich
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #24 - 11/21/09 at 05:35:49
 
 I think instead of the force coming from the front of the bike its coming from down low at the rear of the bike.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #25 - 11/21/09 at 08:32:12
 
I think that this is what happens; the pinion, which is attached to the drive shaft, engages the front side of the crown wheel, which is attached to the back wheel.  As the pinion starts to turn it initially climbs up the crown wheel so lifting the tail of the bike.  Once the bike starts to move the crown wheel descends and with it the pinion.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #26 - 11/21/09 at 08:49:57
 
I read in v-twin mag last year that the chain lose 5% belt 8% and 15% for the shaft power to the rear wheel. Thunder manufacturing recently came out with a chain conversion for the meanstreak why cause the shaft looses to much power.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #27 - 11/21/09 at 09:11:37
 
On my DP bike, only a 225cc,... there was a perceptible performance difference between an o-ring chain and a conventional chain...
I'd guess a least a 1/2hp, and it was only a 428 chain.  That would be more on a 520 or larger chain...
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #28 - 11/21/09 at 09:45:39
 
From memmory, bevel drives are inherently inefficient.
The teeth are trying to slip by each other transversely like a worm drive.
And with bevel drives you have something not present in others... thrust bearings.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #29 - 11/21/09 at 19:44:46
 
Wow, now we're back to the belt back in 2nd place for most efficient, which I know they used to be.

But I know we're talking about the newest hi tech belts, some of which are paper thin, almost no resistence, and very expensive. I don't doubt that these are as,....or more efficient than chain.
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Rich
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