SuzukiSavage.com - % power loss, chain verses belt

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% power loss, chain verses belt
11/20/09 at 07:58:36

Search? Nothing as always !

What is the % of power loss thru belt drive vs chain?

I used to be into "Bent Bikes", (hobby) even built many 2 wheel, several 3wheel, and one 2 person 4 wheel.
The derailler chain drives were (and still are I guess) the most efficient at 98%.
The internal geared 3-15 sp hubs were only 85%, a big loss regarding HPVs. Thats why chain drives still rule on 99%(?) of all bicycles.

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Rich
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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #1 - 11/20/09 at 08:15:01 The belt is more efficent because it is lighter. I read this years ago. You have more options of changing your gearing with a chain drive but for overall effiencey belt drive is best.
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28651 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #2 - 11/20/09 at 08:52:10 Yup,... friction and mass... 1. belt 2. chain 3. o-ring chain 4. shaft
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #3 - 11/20/09 at 09:14:59 I bet the HD style belt is more efficient than ours. Especially when ours are squeaking, because making the noise uses energy. I always thot a chain was the #1 efficient,,, & belt was #2,, I guess Ill have to change that chapter in my book.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #4 - 11/20/09 at 09:32:42

Wait just a minute ! This forum is full of surprises today. I'm not much up on this stuff, but up untill these replies, I would have bet my last buck that chain is #1 in efficiency,.....and I'm not sure I wouldn't still bet it. I'd sure like to know how the belt being #1 was arrived at.

IMO, if a belt was more efficient, we would have seen them on bicycles (HPV) a long time ago,....especially the single speeds. Even a 1% difference make a big difference on HPV (human powered vehicles)

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #5 - 11/20/09 at 10:27:12 Check this out.. Im totally shocked www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/download/2388
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #6 - 11/20/09 at 10:45:09 Now we know why the S40 is so fast
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OK.... so what's the
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #7 - 11/20/09 at 10:46:01

In the days before toothed belts, the belt tension had to be very high, and chains and gears could move more freely...
With toothed belts, belts can move freely and their lighter mass gives them an advantage... unless you over-tighten them...
Belts can't run through a deralier system on a bicycle, and so are limited to single speed or different gearing systems...
Stronger materials, like Kevlar, are letting belts get lighter and smaller and more efficient, but they still don't have good lateral flexibility needed to run through a deralier...
So, it's the inefficiency of the necessary internal gearing that makes belts impractical for bicycles...
Motorcycles don't have that problem...

I'm not quoting any particular source here,... just what I've read and heard... some would argue different, but it makes sense to me...
more so on motorcycles that bicycles though...

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« Last Edit: 11/21/09 at 00:24:23 by Serowbot »

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #8 - 11/20/09 at 11:36:34 A while back, there was a move to go to infinitely variable transmissions. These are the kind that use a v belt and pulleys that spread or squeeze together to change the diameters. They didn't catch on because of the inherent losses. There are a few bicycle transmissions vested in the technology, but they are expensive.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #9 - 11/20/09 at 11:48:03 Theres a few cars that have those transmissions in them.They seek the highest gear ratio they can and have full power when you put the petal to the metal.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #10 - 11/20/09 at 13:11:08

Thanks Justin, I won't argue w/ that.
When do ya get too old to learn something new ?
And come to find out, there are bicycles using belt drive, and sounds like we will see more in the near future.
It is the new light and very thin and flexable belts that create very little friction, that has changed all this.

But, I thought I had read someone here reporting a substancial higher top end speed after switching to chain. But that must have had to do w/ changing ratio at the same time,....I guess.
I'm liking my belt drive better all the time !

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serenity3743 Serious Thumper Offline Striving to better, oft we mar what's well Posts: 778 Black Mountain, NC Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #11 - 11/20/09 at 13:47:09 Yeah, the chain conversion allows for highway speeds at lower RPMs because of the sprocket ratios, not because the chain is more efficient at transferring power, because it's not.
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Re: % power loss, chain verses belt
Reply #12 - 11/20/09 at 14:32:44

Im not sure a derailer couldnt be built & a belt designed to run thru one, but tensioning the belt so it wouldnt slip would be quite a trick, but not impossible, IMO. Chains dont require near the tension.
Variable pulleys can give a CVT ( constant variable transmission,, generally is what thats about, Im sure I missed it some).

The weight, cost & complexity of a belt derailer & the difficulty ( IIRC, a chain has to be broken & put on using a master link, but its been a long time) of putting a belt on a bicycle makes the chain the first choice.
A belt that would fit on a bicycle would need to be pretty narrow.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28651 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #13 - 11/20/09 at 14:51:01 and toothed on both sides....
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Yonuh Adisi FSO Serious Thumper Offline Savage Jedi (Knight) Posts: 3622 Pilot Valley NV, aka Tatooine Gender:	Re: % power loss, chain verses belt Reply #14 - 11/20/09 at 15:13:57 I don't understand how a shaft is not the more efficient. After all it applies the power directly without the stretch of belt or chain which robs power. A shaft does not have that problem. So maybe ya'll can explain that to me.
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