SuzukiSavage.com - Anyone tried a lightweight battery?

Boule’tard

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Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
10/31/09 at 09:20:08

Hi guys,
Well as my battery winds down and looks like it won't make it through the winter, I'm thinking about another cool mod Cheesy

The idea is to maybe squeeze one of these TurnTech batteries under the swingarm, where the charcoal can is mounted on CA models. The 5 Ah battery looks like it would fit.. dang, it's not much bigger than a tape measure. The specs say it will turn "up to 650cc" engines, and I think the cranking amperage is 240. Y'all think it will work? It is a somewhat expensive gamble at $160 + shipping, so I will probably find some reviews and see how they do on large displacement XRs, KTMs and whatnot.

All naysaying and cheerleading welcome, especially if backed by facts and direct experience. Cool

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Reply #1 - 10/31/09 at 10:26:05 I don't know anything about them but looks like a good idea,I think I will try it when I need a battery.
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BurnPgh Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1732	Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Reply #2 - 10/31/09 at 11:12:47 no experience with them, but I'll end up doing the same thing if all goes well with yours. That'll finally allow me to get both the battery box and air box out of sight without having to carry saddlebags. Got my fingers crossed for you.
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Charon Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1811 Harvard, NE Gender:	Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Reply #3 - 10/31/09 at 12:01:40 I'd have to say cosmetics must be pretty important for a person to be willing to pay three times as much for a battery with a third the amp-hour capacity of the stock battery.
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drharveys - FSO Serious Thumper Offline Greetings from San Luis del Norte! Posts: 1776 St Louis MO Gender:	Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Reply #4 - 10/31/09 at 12:08:26 I checked out the thread on ThumperTalk -- this sounds like a promising product. Keep us posted!
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Boule’tard

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #5 - 10/31/09 at 12:55:08

Charon wrote on 10/31/09 at 12:01:40:

I'd have to say cosmetics must be pretty important for a person to be willing to pay three times as much for a battery with a third the amp-hour capacity of the stock battery.

Yeah, that and light weight, as the title of the thread would imply.

Anyway, after some preliminary measurements, it looks like I'll have about 3"W x 5"L x 4"H height to work with. That means I'm not stuck getting the TurnTech, e-batt or any micro-battery. There may be several batteries that will fit (probably longitudinally) any of which will give a significant saving in weight. I will make a wooden block of the max. size I can fit in there to see what I can get away with.

I would like to go with a sealed battery if possible, perhaps a Yuasa AGM, and that's going to cost more regardless of size. The little platform that the battery will sit on isn't exactly level, so I don't want a cheap battery like the stock one that requires level mounting to keep the plates covered with electrolyte.

Amp-hours are nothing and the CCA rating is everything. This bike will not be used for ad-hoc lighting at a mignight basketball game. I want the battery to start the bike within 2 seconds then for the charging system to take over.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Reply #6 - 10/31/09 at 13:26:29 Some 30 years ago I read in a motorcycle magazine that someday they would have a motorcycle battery the size of a credit card,I guess that day is still to come.
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verslagen1

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #7 - 10/31/09 at 14:07:59

$200 for the 5ah

The tape rule shown is one of biggest available, so don't be decived into thinking it's not much bigger than a watch battery.

Why are they so carefull to tell you nothing?
CCA is a standard measurement. 18 sec. pulses to start a 50cc scooter is nothing. And whose to know if they just hooked up a starter with no load on it.

Do your homework my friend.
This is the battery I'd want for track days, not day to day commuting.

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Boule’tard

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #8 - 10/31/09 at 15:34:00

verslagen1 wrote on 10/31/09 at 14:07:59:

Do your homework my friend.
This is the battery I'd want for track days, not day to day commuting.

Aye sir, will research thoroughly.

The 5Ah battery is 4 5/8" L x 2 3/4" wide x 3 1/2" high. It will definitely fit onto the spot where I'm thinking of mounting it, but will look for others that will fit and cost less...

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T Mack 1 - FSO

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #9 - 10/31/09 at 18:27:30

5 AH..... That amp - hours. Pretty sure you will need at least 30 or 40 Amp's in seconds to crank the engine, maybe more. Also called cranking amps or cold cranking amps like Verslagen said (CCA). Car batteries are 600 to 1000 cranking amps.

Next problem, the internal connections won't handle the quick current drain. I had some 12 AH batteries that were about 6"x6"x5". Tried to use one to jump start my riding lawn mower (12 hp Briggs). Well, the engine didn't turn over and then I noticed the connector was at a funny angle. Touched it and it fell off, with the innards melted.

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Charon

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #10 - 10/31/09 at 19:03:44

I can only report my own experience. I put a DC-capable clamp ammeter on the battery lead of my '07 S40, and briefly saw an 83 amp current when I started the engine. The observation was brief, probably for more reasons than one. The time was brief, because the engine started about the third time through compression. The sample and display time of the (digital) meter probably influenced it. The maximum current is drawn only when the engine comes up onto compression. I saw 83 amps - the actual current may have been briefly higher. If someone has better instrumentation than I do, I sure would like to see the results.

By the way, I rechecked while I had the meter connected, because I was interested mostly in the charge current. I shut off the bike, observed the meter, and restarted. The second start showed 70 amps, again briefly. This could have been because the engine had already turned, so turned more easily the second time. It also started more quickly. And the current surge could have caught the meter during a different part of the meter's sample and hold cycle. In any case, the start current is substantial, if short-time.

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #11 - 10/31/09 at 21:58:28

Charon, thanks very much for the amperage numbers. I think those digital ammeters do miss the true peak because they have to chop the sample rate at some value, but it shouldn't be off by much if the cranking amperage wasn't too sharp a spike. That's pretty encouraging actually.. just 83 amps.

Turntech claims 240 "CA" and not CCA. Why not Cold Cranking Amps? They admit that the battery has to warm up some before it will provide 240 amps. Fortunately the battery self-warms as you put loads (starting attempts) on it. So unlike lead-acid batteries that do their best crank first, these are supposed to improve as they warm up.. hopefully at least to the 190 amps the BigCrank provides.

I still want a good ol' AGM if I can get one to fit.. still looking.

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dasch Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1137	Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Reply #12 - 11/01/09 at 01:50:15 I run with a 7Ah gel battery, but not this small. Very sceptical about this one, though.
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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #13 - 11/01/09 at 11:53:13

Update- I made a little 4 1/2" L x 3" W x 4 1/8" H mock-up and it fits in there pretty easy. A Yuasa YTZ7S would also fit. The genuine Yuasa item runs about $90 and cheap knock-offs can be had for as little as $40. If I go with this battery I'll spring for the official Yuasa item, because I'll really be pushing the limit, CCA-wise. Plus, all the Yuasa batteries I've bought over the years have been nothing short of stupendous in performance and longevity (like 7~8 years, but I would be happy with 5 years from an undersized battery).

Advantages:
6 to 7 Ah, depending on who you ask, vs. 5 Ah for the TurnTech
Much cheaper than the TurnTech
Manufacturer lists COLD Cranking amps vs. "optimal" if the temperature, humidity and phase of the moon is just right.
Proven AGM technology, never failed me

Disadvantages:
Heavier than the TurnTech
Slightly bulkier, may take more finagling to get it mounted
Lower ultimate amperage, only 130 vs. 240. The Big-Crank provides 190. The Yuasa's 130 amps should work if Charon's numbers are right.

Annoying question: "Which battery is best?" Cheesy

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Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery?
Reply #14 - 11/02/09 at 07:18:37

So the cheapest one available is Yuasa's re-tagged "Motocross" YTZ7S from batterystuff.com. Just 84 bux shipped Cheesy

I went ahead and ordered it.

I'll take some photos of the install. If it goes badly or doesn't even turn the engine over, I'll post an "Oops, DO NOT TRY" here. Luckily I have a couple of smaller displacement thumpers this battery will easily work in. If it goes well with the Savage I'll post a how-to in the tech section.

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