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Stalling (Read 484 times)
Bubba
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Stalling
10/27/09 at 08:12:15
 
Today I rode into work (30 degrees) When I started her up and tried to let the engine warm up it kept dying (choke out for 30 seconds or so). I upped the idle to keep her going because it just seemed to want to keep dying on me. When I'd fire it up again it would cough out blue smoke for just a second.

Headed to work and after she warmed up (10 minutes maybe?) the bike would stall at almost every light/stop I came to. I finally would just come to a stop and keep the revs up to keep it from stalling out.
I did notice that it smelled a bit like gas.
Too rich? humid day for around here (40%) and cold on top of that...
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'06 lt Blue, Dyna Power pipe, air screw 2 1/4 turns, 52.5 pilot w/ bleed holes, 150 Main, 2/3 spacer, Pirelli MT66 tires, Raptor petcock, 412-4006 Progressive shocks
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Routy
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Re: Stalling
Reply #1 - 10/27/09 at 08:44:06
 
I am not all that familiar w/ the habits of these bikes just yet, but if they have any history of "carb icing",.....and from what you describe,  that could very well be what the problem is. If that is the problem, you would feel icy cold from around the connection between the carb and cyl head.

To illiminate carb icing, warm up the engine at as slow an RPM as possible before taking to the road.
Many other engines are equipped w/ thermostaticaly controlled"hot air intakes" to keep from carb icing.
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Rich
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Bubba
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Re: Stalling
Reply #2 - 10/27/09 at 09:00:26
 
Thanks Routy but I don't think it was icing...I'm wondering if I need to lean out the air mix screw when it's cold. I've richened it up just a tad in the past week or so but this was probably the coldest morning I've ridden it.
It seemed to just shut down when I'd roll up to a stop. Then when starting, I'd smell gas and have to feather the throttle a bunch to get it going again...of course, I'm just guessing here
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'06 lt Blue, Dyna Power pipe, air screw 2 1/4 turns, 52.5 pilot w/ bleed holes, 150 Main, 2/3 spacer, Pirelli MT66 tires, Raptor petcock, 412-4006 Progressive shocks
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Re: Stalling
Reply #3 - 10/27/09 at 09:50:58
 
cool air will make you lean,... humid will make you rich...
Sorta' balances out...

What weight oil are you using?... too thick?...

PS,.. 30 degrees?...  You crazy!.... Huh
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Bubba
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Re: Stalling
Reply #4 - 10/27/09 at 09:57:03
 
15-40 white bottle Rotella. I was wondering about that on the way in!
Yep, 30 degrees...out here at a mile high 30 degrees really isn't so bad but after about 15 miles I was beginning to wonder...anyway, we're expecting about a foot of snow tomorrow...now THAT would be crazy... Shocked
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'06 lt Blue, Dyna Power pipe, air screw 2 1/4 turns, 52.5 pilot w/ bleed holes, 150 Main, 2/3 spacer, Pirelli MT66 tires, Raptor petcock, 412-4006 Progressive shocks
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Midnightrider
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Re: Stalling
Reply #5 - 10/27/09 at 10:02:54
 
If you smell gas you have a leak somewhere. First thing I would check would be the manifold (rubber boot) Spray WD 40 on it with the engine running and if the engine speeds up you have a leak.
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Bubba
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Re: Stalling
Reply #6 - 10/27/09 at 10:32:39
 
Hmmm...I don't think it's a leak. This is the first time I ever smelled it. Plus, I should qualify it by saying that it wasn't really a gas smell just a really powerful exhaust/gas mix kinda smell (kind of like what you smell when you flood it) and that was only when I would restart after the stall
I would think that if the manifold were leaking it would actually smell that way all the time.
I plan to lean up the mix screw just a touch and raise the idle too before I fire it up and head home later today.
It's actually turning into a rather balmy 45 degree day... Smiley
Thanks everyone...I'll let ya know how it goes...
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'06 lt Blue, Dyna Power pipe, air screw 2 1/4 turns, 52.5 pilot w/ bleed holes, 150 Main, 2/3 spacer, Pirelli MT66 tires, Raptor petcock, 412-4006 Progressive shocks
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Routy
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Re: Stalling
Reply #7 - 10/27/09 at 23:10:50
 
Bubba quote:
It seemed to just shut down when I'd roll up to a stop. Then when starting, I'd smell gas and have to feather the throttle a bunch to get it going again...of course, I'm just guessing here
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bubba, I want to stress again, what you describe is exactly icing symtoms, including the gas smell like its flooding.
If it ran good on way back.......in a little warmer temps, I still think it was icing ! I'm sure its not common on these bikes that I'd bet are never ridden in 30 deg temps ! Embarrassed
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Rich
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Bubba
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Re: Stalling
Reply #8 - 10/28/09 at 11:10:18
 
Routy, you may well be right. Although I did lean up the idle mix screw before I headed home it seemed to run like a champ on the way home (about 45 degrees). Since they're calling for 15 inches of snow today there's no way I'm gonna test the theory...I guess I'll need to wait until I have a good cold day.
It was weird...I didn't see any other bikes out that day????
BTW when you say to warm it up with low rpm's how long are you talking? My ride in takes about 30-40 minutes...I would have thought that it would have warmed up by then...
Thanks
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'06 lt Blue, Dyna Power pipe, air screw 2 1/4 turns, 52.5 pilot w/ bleed holes, 150 Main, 2/3 spacer, Pirelli MT66 tires, Raptor petcock, 412-4006 Progressive shocks
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serenity3743
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Re: Stalling
Reply #9 - 10/28/09 at 12:58:38
 
Don't "warm it up with low rpms" that are TOO LOW.  The idle speed needs to be 1000 - 1200 rpms in order for the top end to get adequate oil.
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Midnightrider
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Re: Stalling
Reply #10 - 10/28/09 at 16:12:09
 
A motorcycle will not idle if the plug gap is worn and too wide.
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Routy
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Re: Stalling
Reply #11 - 10/28/09 at 16:47:35
 
Icing take place when the temps are cold,.... freezing or even above. And it is the rushing wind chill factor that takes the temps of the air coming into the carb and intake to well below freezing and forming ice inside the carb and intake manifold. If the engine can possibly warm up before the icing takes place, then icing will usually not occur. But w/o a heat riser, or any kind of a hot air intake, the only chance is to minimize the air volume that is sucked into the carb while the engine is warming up, therefore why I said to use low RPMs.

Once the icing has started, probably as soon as you reved the throttle a couple times, it will not thaw out, no matter how far you ride.
The best way to stop it is to let the engine idle so that the heat from the engine will thaw the ice, or you may have to even shut it down, and hope the heat from the engine will thaw the icy carb and intake.
I know from experience that once an engine starts to ice up, it can be very hard to stop it w/o stopping the engine.

In icing conditions, the air fuel mix is really screwed up and the symptoms are exactly as you described.



Bubba wrote on 10/28/09 at 11:10:18:
Routy, you may well be right. Although I did lean up the idle mix screw before I headed home it seemed to run like a champ on the way home (about 45 degrees). Since they're calling for 15 inches of snow today there's no way I'm gonna test the theory...I guess I'll need to wait until I have a good cold day.
It was weird...I didn't see any other bikes out that day????
BTW when you say to warm it up with low rpm's how long are you talking? My ride in takes about 30-40 minutes...I would have thought that it would have warmed up by then...
Thanks

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Rich
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T Pol 903 LT
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Re: Stalling
Reply #12 - 10/30/09 at 16:15:44
 
I have had an issue with random stalling with Laurie Savage's Tangerine Thumper.  Recently it had failed to start.  It tried but eventually gave up the ghost.  I decided that if I could get a little whiff of starting fluid into the air box she would light off.  I took off the seat and saw my reflection in the bottom of the air box.  I thought it was water.  I took off the side cover and side of the air box only to be overcome with raw gasoline fumes.  I leaned the bike over just a little and it came gushing out.  I found the drain plug and drained as much as I could then leaned it all the way over and drained off the rest.  There had to be 12oz of fuel in the3 box.

I took off the air intake tube and it had no appearance of gas having passed through it and the carb airhorn was also dry.  Curiouser and curiouser I thought.  So I took the battery out and charged her up.  Put it back together today and it fired right up with out the use of the choke.  It idled for a while then dropped down getting ready to stall.  I played with the air stop screw and kept it running figuring it needed to warm up.  Throttle response was slow, again I thought it needed to warm up.  I kept looking inside the air box for gas...nothing.  Then I saw it, the out side of the box was getting wet.  Turns out the clutch side bowl vent tube which crosses to the throttle side was leaking.  Oddly enough the other bowl vent tube was not leaking.  My thoughts are it needs a new needle and seat or maybe just cleaned.

With all that being said check the black float bowl vent tubes and or your air box for signs of raw gasoline.  The box was so full the air filter was saturated.

Let me know what you find and I will report back on the actual fix.
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Bubba
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Re: Stalling
Reply #13 - 11/02/09 at 08:50:02
 
Thanks T Pol but no gas in the air box or vent tubes...I think Routy's icing theory is the most likely scenario...haven't had a chance to ride it since the snowfall.
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Re: Stalling
Reply #14 - 11/03/09 at 21:13:50
 
T Pol 903 LT wrote on 10/30/09 at 16:15:44:
I have had an issue with random stalling with Laurie Savage's Tangerine Thumper.  Recently it had failed to start.  It tried but eventually gave up the ghost.  I decided that if I could get a little whiff of starting fluid into the air box she would light off.  I took off the seat and saw my reflection in the bottom of the air box.  I thought it was water.  I took off the side cover and side of the air box only to be overcome with raw gasoline fumes.  I leaned the bike over just a little and it came gushing out.  I found the drain plug and drained as much as I could then leaned it all the way over and drained off the rest.  There had to be 12oz of fuel in the3 box.

I took off the air intake tube and it had no appearance of gas having passed through it and the carb airhorn was also dry.  Curiouser and curiouser I thought.  So I took the battery out and charged her up.  Put it back together today and it fired right up with out the use of the choke.  It idled for a while then dropped down getting ready to stall.  I played with the air stop screw and kept it running figuring it needed to warm up.  Throttle response was slow, again I thought it needed to warm up.  I kept looking inside the air box for gas...nothing.  Then I saw it, the out side of the box was getting wet.  Turns out the clutch side bowl vent tube which crosses to the throttle side was leaking.  Oddly enough the other bowl vent tube was not leaking.  My thoughts are it needs a new needle and seat or maybe just cleaned.

With all that being said check the black float bowl vent tubes and or your air box for signs of raw gasoline.  The box was so full the air filter was saturated.

Let me know what you find and I will report back on the actual fix.


Ok so THIS is the exact problem im having.....have you figured out what was causing your bike to do this?  Im not really mechanically inclined, but im sure if i had instructions i could figure it out....i had gas pouring out my vent tube strait down onto the concrete....having been running late i just said screw it and took off with the fuel dribbling down the frame....after about 1.5 miles the gas just stopppe dumping....i have noticed this happen only twice since i got the bike 3 months ago....is it something to do with the cold?  i tried running seafoam through the bike and though that helped a little bit im still dumping fuel....if you come up with an answer i would be much appreciative
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