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$17.00 side cover gasket (Read 407 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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$17.00 side cover gasket
10/24/09 at 03:43:59
 
Let's talk about overly expensive gaskets for a second.

The list got tired of getting ripped for $90 cam chains and we spec'd an improved version for $45.  I just priced a side cover gasket and with shipping the side cover gasket would be $20 after shipping.  

I also just looked at an attempt to avoid this fiscal rape that turned out wrong and cost a guy a motor.

How much should a paper gasket cost?

========================

Let me explain further by use of a Youtube video -- there are folks out there who make a cottage industry of cutting out paper gaskets using this sort of equipment.  You can stack the paper and run the program multiple times until the stack is cut through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFGcqc-gfiw&feature=related

There are also commerical paper cutting businesses that cut stacks of paper material using water jet and laser cutters as well as digital needle cutters and blade punch presses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlQe8iFRlsM&feature=related

We can create our own design for a cardstock gasket for the side covers that is stronger and better than the weakly structured Suzuki gasket that can only be used about once without tearing.

But ... feasibility -- how much should a cardstock thickness gasket cost?  Let's find out the market value to us as a list then figure out what can be done at that cost.

Hey, we may wind up putting out a .JPEG image that you print and cut out with a pair of scissors if that is the price point that is chosen.

but with this stuff out there, why bother?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_3o1OiLcO4&NR=1
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« Last Edit: 10/24/09 at 04:49:55 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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kk lewi
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #1 - 10/24/09 at 05:47:20
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 10/24/09 at 03:43:59:
Let's talk about overly expensive gaskets for a second.

The list got tired of getting ripped for $90 cam chains and we spec'd an improved version for $45.  I just priced a side cover gasket and with shipping the side cover gasket would be $20 after shipping.  

I also just looked at an attempt to avoid this fiscal rape that turned out wrong and cost a guy a motor.

How much should a paper gasket cost?

========================

Let me explain further by use of a Youtube video -- there are folks out there who make a cottage industry of cutting out paper gaskets using this sort of equipment.  You can stack the paper and run the program multiple times until the stack is cut through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFGcqc-gfiw&feature=related

There are also commerical paper cutting businesses that cut stacks of paper material using water jet and laser cutters as well as digital needle cutters and blade punch presses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlQe8iFRlsM&feature=related

We can create our own design for a cardstock gasket for the side covers that is stronger and better than the weakly structured Suzuki gasket that can only be used about once without tearing.

But ... feasibility -- how much should a cardstock thickness gasket cost?  Let's find out the market value to us as a list then figure out what can be done at that cost.

Hey, we may wind up putting out a .JPEG image that you print and cut out with a pair of scissors if that is the price point that is chosen.

but with this stuff out there, why bother?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_3o1OiLcO4&NR=1


Hmmm, with the technology shown $17 does seem a bit excessive.  What can we do about it tho?
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #2 - 10/24/09 at 06:39:29
 
"But ... feasibility -- how much should a cardstock thickness gasket cost?  Let's find out the market value to us as a list then figure out what can be done at that cost."

First, answer the 10 cent question, how much should a side gasket made of card stock or poster board cost?  Then you know how much potential you have to seek a solution at that price.

Somebody says $10 you can have them cut commercially (depending on how many are needed).  Somebody says $5 you are searching for a hobbiest that has one of the machines that wants to make a dollar or two on the side.  Answer depends on what is wanted, or how fancy you want it to be.

$17 ain't no answer though .... that's a stealership bendover with no cigarette offered afterwards.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #3 - 10/24/09 at 08:21:39
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 10/24/09 at 06:39:29:
$17 ain't no answer though .... that's a stealership bendover with no cigarette offered afterwards.


Very true but that is the going price.  

I can charge $100 for a tasty cup of lemonade.  If someone will pay that price should I reduce or increase it?

I sure wish I could make that piece of $0.02 paper but I can't.  Therefore I have to pay the man $17.  Sucks, but hopefully those greenbacks will be passed on later to a person in need, and not a rich prick on a yacht somewhere in the South Pacific.

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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #4 - 10/24/09 at 08:44:45
 
IIRC, my clutch cover gasket cost me $14.00. I watched them cut it out on their machine. I dont know that thats an unfair price. IDK, cost of the machine & software & maintenance & service life & IDK how much it works in a week, generating income. But, unless its a low buck deal to own & operate, $14.00 seems plenty fair.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #5 - 10/24/09 at 08:46:04
 
[quote author=737E67656A6C6A0B0 link=1256381039/0#3 date=1256397699][quote author=77545C5E5D54545D4A380 link=1256381039/0#2 date=1256391569]



I can charge $100 for a tasty cup of lemonade.  If someone will pay that price should I reduce or increase it?



Id build a mobile stand & stay where that guy can see it.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #6 - 10/24/09 at 09:42:41
 
Ok, so you are willing to pay $14 for a $17 gasket and are completely accepting of the situation as you are helpless to fix it.  Got that.   Don't like it, but I got it.

No sense of outrage, used to being bent over by stealerships -- accepting.

Meek, mild.

Turn the other cheek.

It's Ok, it's only money.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #7 - 10/24/09 at 10:01:53
 
What constitutes good "gasket paper" to you?

Butcher paper?  Postal wrapping paper?  Poster board?  Card stock?

The question gets down to "how thick"?

You don't want a glossy finish on a crush gasket.  You do want it to be oil impermeable when crushed and compressed, but butcher paper and postal wrapping paper meet this requirement, so most papers would meet it as well.

Automotive gasket materials as bought from auto parts stores are too thick for clutch side cover gaskets (you'd have to have a modded rod to recover your adjustment range).

What is the right max thickness of the right material?  Poster board?
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #8 - 10/24/09 at 10:05:36
 
No, no,,If I can get it on the cheap, thats great, Im just a little bit "business friendly" in that I want the guy I go to to be there when I need him. I also look at costs for him & what does it take for him to sell me that gasket. The costs he has in the equipment, maintenance, service life, production rate, all play a part in the final price to me. Now, IF he is inefficient & IF he isnt competitive, Then hes gonna get cut out of the loop. But, W/O access to any real numbers ( cost of equipment & materials & maintenance) but having seen the stuff work. I think $14.00 is not unreasonable. But maybe the equipment is cheaper than the "Gee whiz wouldya look at that!?" feeling I had when I saw it made me think it is. If the little "Printer" with the traveling stylus costs $200.00 & the software costs $50.00 & a roll of paper costs $20.00, then hes screwing the heck out of us..especially if it doesnt need repairs..OTOH,,that danged machine may have cost him a small fortune, & NOW, new machines may not cost much at all. I just need NUMBERS before I can have an idea about what price is fair.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #9 - 10/24/09 at 10:08:51
 
A "Gasket Clinic" would be good, too. If I had a Need for a gasket & a tool that would make it if I just dropped the material in , but I hadnt actually seen the gasket that was in it, so I dont know the thickness or the material & I had a room full of gasket material, how would I choose?
I did not know I didnt want a glossy side on a crush gasket. How do I know what places get a crush & whats the option? A crush ( dont they all get crushed?) gasket or what>?
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #10 - 10/24/09 at 10:31:17
 
Justin, the software is free and the machines cost around $300-400 nowadays.  You can buy a roll of postal paper at Walmart.  You can buy a piece of poster paper for under a dollar for a large piece.

Where did you see one of these things in use?
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #11 - 10/24/09 at 10:54:18
 


Gasket Clinic:

The function of a gasket material is to crush and fill all non-conformities in a somewhat rough machined surface.  Surface of the gasket should be matt, not glossy as the glossy on paper is achieved by impregnating the paper with wax and clay to fill in all surface irregularities (duh, that's why its glossy).  A gasket should be no thicker than required as excess thickness increases the rate at which oils, etc can seep through the gasket's material.

Contrary to common knowledge, standard gasket paper isn't completely oil proof, simply very very slow to allow oil to move through once it is compressed.  Plain paper works, as does silicone saturated papers (silicone is immiscible with normal petroleum oils, if it is there first it is not replaced by normal oil).  Plasticisers, rubbers and neoprenes can be used to higher temperature oil proof paper gasket materials and must be used in any thicker gasket material.

Cheapest "oil proof" gasket is silicone oil impregnated plain paper.  Applied dry to clean aluminum castings the silicone oil is squeezed out of the compressed paper wetting the castings, making a barrier film that normal oil cannot cross.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #12 - 10/24/09 at 11:26:37
 
When I did the cam chain. Been a couple of years, at least. I know we were living here & I didnt have a shop out back yet, so at least 2 years ago. The shop I use ( rarely) has a machine & they entered what I had, LS650 & what gasket I wanted & it just started running the paper thru a printer looking doohickey with a stylus. I thot the "Gee Whiz, aint that cool!?" factor was worth the $14.00. No order & wait, just punch it in & print it out.

I cant remember if one side was sticky,,
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #13 - 10/24/09 at 11:49:28
 
  Did you guys ever think about printing money,Then you could afford a real gasket.
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Re: $17.00 side cover gasket
Reply #14 - 10/24/09 at 12:24:12
 
There is a term for that sort of printing, Bill -- gets you at least 20 years or more.
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