SuzukiSavage.com - How do I deal with crap?

verslagen1

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How do I deal with crap?
10/15/09 at 22:04:23

I took on a project
A very leaky engine (very is an understatement)
He used something that looks like Indian Head sealer for the head, clutch and stator cover.
Didn't work.
3 sessions with the pressure washer and the engine looks clean but I still finding knooks and crannies with gunk.
Now for the bad part, took off the clutch cover and there's drips of sealer all inside. And it looks like the clutch sucked it up and the cork is all black.
Clean the clutch or toss it to the dog?

Got the head cover off, and I'm a little concerned with the cam. The cam journals in the head look ok, polished, a little wear. But the cam is black at the bearings. When I messed with the other heads, the bearings were bright.
Wassup wit dat?

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FreeSpirit Serious Thumper Offline Joy is my Compass ! Posts: 3823 North Georgia Gender:	Re: How do I deal with crap? Reply #1 - 10/16/09 at 00:13:50 Beats me ,you said I need a Man for the job. Or was it the right tool? Just jokin ya Verslagen! Hope you get a answer....then I'll know
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T Mack 1 - FSO

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #2 - 10/16/09 at 03:45:21

The clutch plates absord oil so color is related to how dirty or burnt the oil was. Are the friction plates discolored (blued?)

As for the cam, have you measured them? If in spec then in theroy you should be good. Remember, it's not steel to steel where you have to worry about loosing temper/hardness.

I wonder if the PO used some kind of additive in the oil.... Huh

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #3 - 10/16/09 at 06:33:21

If you want, hit the cam journals with a little 800 grit to remove the discoloration/build up. Measure to make sure you have meat to remove and still be within factory spec. before brightening it up.

Clutch slipping? If not, don't worry about it. Rough up the steel plates a wee bit with 320 and remove any glazing from the friction plates with same grit. If it wasn't slipping before, it won't slip after being roughed up (but the glazing will be gone).

Tell owner to use a high detergent high dispersant oil and expect it to get black fairly quickly -- tell him previous owner did him a disservice and engine requires a regimen of internal cleaning for the next few years to remove what can be removed.

Rotella T dino (white jug) will scrub what can be removed out of the engine. If Rotella won't move it, don't worry about it as it is bonded too well to worry about. He will do a lot of oil changes, so go dino as it will get dirty right quick.

Some year engines were painted inside the case with same dark color used on outside of case. Savage Rob had one of these and it always looked "crapped out" in every pic he took.

I take it this isn't a painted case, that this is build up of "substance X" on all internal surfaces?

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Ed L.

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #4 - 10/16/09 at 07:00:14

I'm with Oldfeller on the possability of an oil additive being used on the engine. I've used oil with graphite in engines and have seen a black coating inside the crankcase which was tough to get off. I even tried a copper/molly based additive that was suposed to build up a layer on worn journals. The stuff seemed to work, too bad I only bought one 8 oz bottle. I'd bet the black cam journals are from an additive, the copper based one I used plated all the journals with a thin layer of copper which seemed to bond to the metal. Kinda cool stuff, whish I could remember it's name, got CRS. Angry

Luck with the project

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justin_o_guy2

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What happened?

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #5 - 10/16/09 at 07:35:22

Is the inside of the timing cover covered with this baked on sludge? If so, if you took it & dropped it in a pan of Rotella & brought it up to temp & agitated to simulate vibration, maybe you could see kinda what %age of the internally cooked on crap should let go? Maybe? I'd expect that the oil passages higher up, nearer to the heat of the combustion, will be more solidly caked, or, maybe the crap "sets up" in the cooler parts? IDK, just thinking out loud here, hoping to help a little..
My neighbor was down yesterday w/ his old Dodge P/U, nearly 300,000 miles, oil blowing around under the hood, looks like valve cover leaks, but as we added oil I noticed the underside of the oil fill cap..Looked like someone dumped oil on a dirt clod, man, the inside of that engine must be a real mess.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #6 - 10/16/09 at 07:39:27

Ed L. wrote on 10/16/09 at 07:00:14:

I'm with Oldfeller on the possability of an oil additive being used on the engine. I've used oil with graphite in engines and have seen a black coating inside the crankcase which was tough to get off. I even tried a copper/molly based additive that was suposed to build up a layer on worn journals. The stuff seemed to work, too bad I only bought one 8 oz bottle. I'd bet the black cam journals are from an additive, the copper based one I used plated all the journals with a thin layer of copper which seemed to bond to the metal. Kinda cool stuff, whish I could remember it's name, got CRS. Angry

Luck with the project

Hey, Ed, any of these look familiar?

#
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Ran

oil additive copper
Thru the search.

Didnt try copper oil additive, might be different results.

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bill67

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #7 - 10/16/09 at 07:50:03

verslagen1 wrote on 10/15/09 at 22:04:23:

I took on a project
A very leaky engine (very is an understatement)
He used something that looks like Indian Head sealer for the head, clutch and stator cover.
Didn't work.
3 sessions with the pressure washer and the engine looks clean but I still finding knooks and crannies with gunk.
Now for the bad part, took off the clutch cover and there's drips of sealer all inside. And it looks like the clutch sucked it up and the cork is al Il black.
Clean the clutch or toss it to the dog?

Got the head cover off, and I'm a little concerned with the cam. The cam journals in the head look ok, polished, a little wear. But the cam is black at the bearings. When I messed with the other heads, the bearings were bright.
Wassup wit dat?

I would take a toothbrush and brush some SeaFoam on it and see what happens

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matt

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #8 - 10/16/09 at 11:28:43

idk if this works on the engine, but theres this stuff called Grease or Greased Lightning.

Its cheap, gallon is a few bucks, and does a better job then other degreasers i have used, which not many...

after i started using this stuff, i use way less of the rough green sponges.

Maybe saturate, let sit, blast away with high pressure water?

Matt

also works well on hot headers with crap, use that and a popcicle stick, good to go.

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verslagen1

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #9 - 10/21/09 at 22:54:58

Now that I got the outside of the engine clean, I'm working on the inside.
I found that acetone dissolves this crap. So that and a toothbrush I've gotten the insides of the side covers clean.

You guys know if acetone harms any thing in the engine?

It seems whatever he used as a sealant dissolves in oil. Stick to the tried and true my friends, I may have to split the case to get this clean yet.
I think the clutch is toast the way this gunk sticks to everything.
Next step is to clean the head cover, then I'll put in new gaskets, seal it up put in OF cleaning oil and Bill's fixall... Rotella and seafoam.

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Rogue_Cheddar Serious Thumper Offline Hang up the phone and drive! Posts: 725 Haverhill, Massachusetts Gender:	Re: How do I deal with crap? Reply #10 - 10/22/09 at 18:12:30 "You guys know if acetone harms any thing in the engine?" Keep it away from rubber, plastic and painted parts, other than that excellant solvent on metal parts. Try not to huff it too much.
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thumperclone

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #11 - 10/22/09 at 18:36:49

verslagen1 wrote on 10/21/09 at 22:54:58:

Now that I got the outside of the engine clean, I'm working on the inside.
I found that acetone dissolves this crap. So that and a toothbrush I've gotten the insides of the side covers clean.

You guys know if acetone harms any thing in the engine?

It seems whatever he used as a sealant dissolves in oil. Stick to the tried and true my friends, I may have to split the case to get this clean yet.
I think the clutch is toast the way this gunk sticks to everything.
Next step is to clean the head cover, then I'll put in new gaskets, seal it up put in OF cleaning oil and Bill's fixall... Rotella and seafoam.

any high volitile quick to evaparate solvent wont hurt metal..
your health,plastics,rubber compounds,wire(conductor) coverings
are another story..paint thinner is less caustic to you and your skin but laquer thinner is faster..we use denatured alachol for alot of our paining clean up..remember the red wash tubs in auto repair shops that had a recycling sump of some kind of solvent? safe T clean??

always read the warning label and adhear to the saftey percautions..
and NEVER drink beer!!!

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T Mack 1 - FSO

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Re: How do I deal with crap?
Reply #12 - 10/23/09 at 03:47:27

verslagen1 wrote on 10/21/09 at 22:54:58:

Now that I got the outside of the engine clean, I'm working on the inside.
I found that acetone dissolves this crap. So that and a toothbrush I've gotten the insides of the side covers clean.

You guys know if acetone harms any thing in the engine?

It seems whatever he used as a sealant dissolves in oil. Stick to the tried and true my friends, I may have to split the case to get this clean yet.
I think the clutch is toast the way this gunk sticks to everything.
Next step is to clean the head cover, then I'll put in new gaskets, seal it up put in OF cleaning oil and Bill's fixall... Rotella and seafoam.

Hmmmmmmm.... I wonder if the guy used household latex chaulk to seal it..... Huh

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Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: How do I deal with crap? Reply #13 - 10/23/09 at 17:28:25 I found that gas disolves it too. This stuff looks like indian head shellac but doesn't harden. even oil disolves it, least that's must of been why its all over the engine. I'm going to put it back together w/o clutch, fill it with rotella and seafoam. fire it up for awhile and drain it to see if it completely cleaned out.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How do I deal with crap? Reply #14 - 10/23/09 at 18:06:26 That SeaFoam should do the trick.
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