bill67 wrote on 09/28/09 at 07:46:27:

Extended use oil requires an extended use filter which we don't have.
Extended use means we'll build up debree to point of damage.
Particles greater than 10 microns are larger than the oil film.

Yep, Verslagen -- I know that it was an old article, but it was quoted by one of the newbies (he found it all on his own) so I rolled with what was presented to me.

And yeah, Rotella Syn costs $19 a gallon at Walmart now.  It and all other oils have gone up in price equally due to the devaluation of the dollar.

At least this crew of newbies is learning on their own and digging up their own stuff and posting it.

You, however, are still trying to argue with Bill.  That my friend is a waste of time since he is just gonna throw another nonsense wrench at you about an hour from now.  


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Trash particles in our oil >= 10 microns

Ok, let's say they get past the normal standard filter (I think some do and so do you) == so what happens?

Let's break answer into two parts:

1) soft particles (aluminum, plastic cam chain guide and cork clutch wear products) that get chewed up by the gears and ball bearing rollers with no appreciable damage to bearing races, etc.  Only bearing surface that can be harmed by these is the head cam journal bearings and they run a clearance measured in thousands of an inch.  

These soft particles happen all the time, get chewed up into smaller pieces and get recirculated and chewed up yet again.  They might get smeared over a race or a ball, but they do no real damage.  The tiny sub-micron results of this endless grinding up exit the engine when you change the oil.

2) hard particles (gear teeth, cam chain, other ferrous sources).  These little bits are bad news since they can gouge ball bearing balls and scar up the races and cause actual damage going through a gear interface.  Even ground up, they will cause damage each trip through the works.  These are the bits I worry about.


So, if you worry about them ferrous bits, put a super magnet on your oil filter and trap them all before they go through the works again.

If you want all the bits (hard and soft) gone, mount up your bypass filter and take them all out by golly.


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PS  I am guilty of baiting a newbie into a tire wear out contest, his brand new $130 tire vs my 2 plus year old Chung Fooie rear tire.  

'Ol Freddie's singing to him .... he just don't know it yet


<grin>


TrulyEvilOldfeller

  I have no doubt in my mine that I can go over 50000 miles without doing anything to the motor using Klotz racing synthetic oil. And also not have to take the carb apart,preventive maintenance has been working for me for many years,I don't see any reason for it to stop in the 21 century.

Bill,  that is a chicken bet.  You lose already.

Serenity gave me his old motor with nearly 60,000 miles on it run on old style car oils that had over 10 ppm of ZDDP (all oils back then had the right stuff in them in the proper PPM levels -- all oils had ZDDP alias zinc phosporus additive packages in them back then).    

It is sitting here beside my laptop as we type.  So I already have one that could beat your modern Klotz already sitting there, just waiting for you.

Bill, how much of what flat tappet wear prevention goodie does your Klotz have in it at $11.95 a quart (plus 8 bucks in shipping charges)?

(or $30 per oil change, whichever way you want to say it)

You love the stuff, so give us its specs or be silent -- or won't Klotz tell you what they have in the oil?  



Oh, its a secret??!!




(hee hee hee)



And K&N doesn't make an oil filter (but STP does) but why would I need a sub-10 micron filter when I already stop all my large ferrous particles before they even get to filter and I stop ALL my ferrous bits no matter how small before they exit the filter?

Are you attempting to start a filter war because you can't win an oil war?

Ok, fire away ....

Huh -- I don't have a K&N filter?

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 09/28/09 at 12:54:18:


FACTUAL CORRECTION:  Oldfeller, my engine had something over 51,000 miles on it when I tore it down for rebuild.  I had used Suzuki dino oil throughout the life of the engine, 20W50 in the summer and 10W40 in the winter..........serenity3743

Oldfeller, the "hard bits" that I think are of concern are the particles of silicon dioxide - also known as "sand" - that make their way into the engine by way of the intake system. The air filter doesn't stop them all, and some make their way past the rings into the oil. Too, hard bits of carbon are produced in normal combustion and some of those also make their way into the oil. Neither sand nor soot will be stopped by a magnet, and both can be hard enough to do damage. Those particles are the reason I don't think a magnet will make much overall difference, even though it can't hurt. The oil filter is supposed to trap particles big enough to cause damage, and the oil dispersant package is supposed to keep the rest from settling out where they may do things such as blocking oil passages. It is my belief that the real reason for oil changes is to remove those particles. Synthetic oils may retain their viscosity longer than non-synthetics, but I think the real limit on oil life is particulate suspension.

By the way, some years ago a synthetic aircraft engine oil came out. I think it was Mobil 1, but I am not sure. It was found inadequate in airplanes using hydraulically controlled propellers. Seems it was unable to keep lead (from 100 Low Lead avgas) in suspension. The lead would centrifuge out in rotating parts of the propeller governors. The oil manufacturer paid for quite a few engine rebuilds.

  Oil change for cars is 7000 miles they just run with the sand in them. Motorcycles should be changed every 30 days