SuzukiSavage.com - 24 hours later... Help?

RocksimusMaximus

Junior Member
2005 No Login

Offline

Posts: 51

24 hours later... Help?
09/20/09 at 02:12:15

Ok... so as some of you know, my bike died on me last night. And shes still dead. Here are the facts.

-Its a 2005 with 22K miles
-I was on the freeway doin about 75 when she died. Suddenly.
-When I tried to start her she just cranked and cranked and cranked. Never even got a "trying to turn over" sound.
-Checked my fuel lines today, everything is fine.
-Pulled the carburetor and opened it up... everything seems to be moving the way it is supposed to.
-Pulled the spark plug, still looked to be in good shape, cleaned it just to be safe
-Pulled out the spark plug and grounded it to the frame... I am still getting a spark.
-Put the bike back together, let the battery charge all the way.
-When I tried to start her again after all that... I got the EXACT same "crank without turn"... and the engine is cranking pretty fast... not lagging at all.
-The battery connections all seem to be fine.

I'm pretty much out of ideas. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Back to top

IP Logged

False Illusion

Full Member

Offline

Two digits down as
we're passin'!

Posts: 202
Dayton/Southwest Ohio
Gender: male

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #1 - 09/20/09 at 02:39:03

Rock...

Is your kill switch engaged? I know this sounds elementary...but it happens...

Sorry...you said you're getting spark...my bad

Sounds like low or no compression..

Went to Clymers...according to it..here's the possibilities:

1) Fouled plug
2) Improperly adjusted choke
3) Contaminated fuel system
4) Improperly adjusted carburetor
5) Weak ignition coil
6) Weak ignition signal generator
7) Weak or faulty igniter unit
8) Incorrect type ignition coil
9) Poor compression
10) Improperly adjusted automatic decompression cable

HTH my friend...

Back to top

Black '07 Boulevard S40 w/ OEM Saddlebags, Windshield, Guard, SissyBar,and Rack. Schwinn Bicycle Computer, Highway Pegs by Thumperclone, Time Piece ala the $ store...and a $5 cooler from WalMart Wink

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: 24 hours later... Help? Reply #2 - 09/20/09 at 03:49:49 Have you ever checked the cam chain? At 22K, you are past when lots of folks have changed theirs. Your problem may be a bit more serious than spark & gas issues. Any odd noise when it shut off? Did it lurch, jerk, make a racket?
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Routy

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender: male

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #3 - 09/20/09 at 06:21:55

If the engine sounds normal while cranking, it most likely has compression. You could have verified that while cranking w/ the s plug out,...(feeling compression)

I am surprised that you would pull the carb, ...the last thing I would have done. Nothing in the carb would suddenly stop it from running completely.

I would have put it in "prime" mode, then removed the drain plug from the carb....to verify that it is getting fuel.

You already verified that you have spark.

If cam chain timing is still intact, it should run Huh

Back to top

Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

IP Logged

Demin

Serious Thumper

Offline

We need more
chlorine in the gene
pool

Posts: 2435
Warren,Ohio
Gender: male

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #4 - 09/20/09 at 06:22:05

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/20/09 at 03:49:49:

Have you ever checked the cam chain? At 22K, you are past when lots of folks have changed theirs. Your problem may be a bit more serious than spark & gas issues.

Any odd noise when it shut off? Did it lurch, jerk, make a racket?

+1 that's what I was thinking.
The elements to make anything run are
air
fuel
compression and all at the right time.
suck
squeeze
bang
blow

Back to top

Next project:finish '87 Savage custom/bobber/CHOP STYLE***DONE
finish '77 Yamaha XS650 bobber Bought another one
finish'79 Harley custom bobber(NEXT)

IP Logged

ero4444 Full Member Offline weekender Posts: 176	Re: 24 hours later... Help? Reply #5 - 09/20/09 at 09:07:04 stalled at 75mph, me too - I ran out of gas. No coughing, it just stopped firing, and I was too slow on the uptake to go to RES. I don't want to insult your intelligence but you didn't say that you checked fuel or vacuum - put it in PRI? what is your actual battery voltage? Water level? Did you try to push start?
Back to top	c2001, 3800miles, 3rd owner, adjusted idle, raised seat, Tkat brace, Raptor petcock, cleaned carb, replaced some jets, Dyna muffler, Fiamm horns, Shinkos, future Ed L. forward controls, fork boots. IP Logged

Serowbot

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Online

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28639
Tucson Az
Gender: male

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #6 - 09/20/09 at 10:39:38

Check for compression,... feel for air pressure out the muffler with your palm while cranking the engine over...
If you don't feel the puffing,... pull the plug (again), and squirt a teaspoon of oil down the hole,... that will reseal the rings... they may have lost their seal from gas wash while cranking without starting....

I had a sudden engine cut-out once,... and traced it to an intermittent connection at the clutch lever safety cut-out... pull the wire connecters at the lever and the kickstand and clean them and reconnect...

Back to top

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

...

IP Logged

RocksimusMaximus

Junior Member
2005 No Login

Offline

Posts: 51

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #7 - 09/20/09 at 10:48:56

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/20/09 at 03:49:49:

Have you ever checked the cam chain? At 22K, you are past when lots of folks have changed theirs. Your problem may be a bit more serious than spark & gas issues.

Any odd noise when it shut off? Did it lurch, jerk, make a racket?

Checked my cam chain at about 18k... seemed good as new. I assume that if my cam chain broke it wouldve been fairly obvious that something Major was wrong.

And nope... she didn't make any kind of weird noises. Just died as though she ran out of gas. When I put her to reserve... nothin. Put her to PRI... nothin.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll double check the compression and I'll see about the clutch shut off switch. Would've never thought of that.

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2

Serious Thumper

Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #8 - 09/20/09 at 11:36:39

at 18 K,, what was the measured extension on the tensioner?
The cam chain doesnt break, the tensioner allows it to get slack in it, tensioner comes apart & drops junk in gears, so,, if it was around 18 mm,, you might want to go look again,

Youve got gas & spark, all you arent certain of is air. You could pop the valve cover off & make sure the valves are still opening & closing.
You can put it on TDC & see if youve got slack in the lifters on the exhaust, easiest valves to get to..That would at least prove the cam is still timed & spinning.

Back to top

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #9 - 09/20/09 at 11:53:54

Sudden quiet death is usually a petcock issue
But also could be a electrical issue
you said you pulled the gas line off (another thread) and got gas all over, that proves only one thing, you got gas to the top of the carb, doesn't prove it went in. Put a clear line on the bottom of the carb if you got a drain nipple, open the drain and put the petcock to prime, the gas should go up the line to the bowl gasket and shut off. can't twist the grip and see gas shoot anywhere, so not sure what's next w/o taking it apart and checking the main for dead mice. d

did you check the fuses? I think the ig circuit is separate from the lighting and all.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

Stimpy - FSO

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukisSavage Int'l
Division

Posts: 1203
Germany - formerly SD, SoCal
Gender: male

jumper cables
Reply #10 - 09/20/09 at 12:30:51

did you drain the carb's tub and gas came out? (so it's 100% not dry, right?)
ok, then try this:

- turn on all switches as if ready to start bike (place in neutral)

- grab some jumper cables, attach to cars battery
(car, not huge truck, w/engine turned off)

- attach (-) negative end to the engines clutch lever

- then attach the (+) positive end to a large screwdriver that you will
briefly use to touch the bikes electric starter's (+) cable/nut end with,
see the black rubber cap in the pic? expose that and touch (+) there.

- this direct jolt of current to the starter should start the bike
if all electrical is well; this produces a strong spark and crank to
the starter; if not maybe your footstand or neutral switch is busted, dunno.

Back to top

Recently sold 97'savage (change of residence) - looking to buy another - just bought a temp, a great SR125 called 'methadone'

IP Logged

gerald.hughes

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

FSO

Posts: 1100
Tucson, Az
Gender: male

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #11 - 09/20/09 at 12:52:29

OK, I will throw in my two cents. Based upon my own sad experiences, I have only had the bike die on me three times. Once was when I accidently hit the kill switch. Once was when my vacuum line went on the petcock (I have since replaced it with a Raptor 660 petcock.), and once when I accidently activated the kick stand interlock with my heel. (That silly think can even be out of whack when the kick stand appears all the way up.)

Don't know if any of this helps, just throwing suggestions out.

Back to top

IP Logged

False Illusion Full Member Offline Two digits down as we're passin'! Posts: 202 Dayton/Southwest Ohio Gender:	Re: 24 hours later... Help? Reply #12 - 09/23/09 at 07:24:19 Hey RocksimusMaxsimus... Is the jury still out? ...Just wondering what caused the sudden death the other night..
Back to top	Black '07 Boulevard S40 w/ OEM Saddlebags, Windshield, Guard, SissyBar,and Rack. Schwinn Bicycle Computer, Highway Pegs by Thumperclone, Time Piece ala the $ store...and a $5 cooler from WalMart IP Logged

RocksimusMaximus

Junior Member
2005 No Login

Offline

Posts: 51

Re: 24 hours later... Help?
Reply #13 - 09/23/09 at 16:00:35

Jury is still out... and I am just about stumped. So far I have:

-confirmed I still have compression (STRONG gust of air that blew my thumb off when I put it over the spark plug hole)
-confirmed I still have spark (took out the plug and grounded it to the bike frame)
-changed the spark plug... for good measure
-Adjusted my automatic decompression cable and my valves
-Checked out my carb... gas is getting to the carb... and when I open up the drain plug... plenty of gas drains out.
-Attempted to jump it using the method Stimpy suggested (made no difference whatsoever)
-Cleaned the air filter... also for good measure.
-Charged the battery all the way up
-Checked battery connections (although I think jumping off of a car battery the way I did would have bypassed that problem)

And after all that... not a d@m thing has changed. I turn the key... all the lights come on nice and strong, I go to start her... she just cranks and cranks and cranks like she's starved for gas. And the starter is still cranking as fast as it ever has.

Trying to decide what my next move is... there has GOT to be something simple that I've just overlooked. I'd like to assume that if it were something wrong internally with the engine that it would at least TRY to turn over instead of acting like its out of gas... but maybe I'm just hoping.

And as always... I'm taking suggestions...

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: 24 hours later... Help? Reply #14 - 09/23/09 at 16:30:06 I'd pull the tube feeding air to the carb & spray some WD 40 in there. The propellant is propane. See if it bucks & coughs. It may even start.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged