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Piston rings (Read 450 times)
BurnPgh
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Piston rings
09/12/09 at 21:56:41
 
Since I've got my top end and can't seem to locate a reason for my oil loss my one friend is pushing me to get an overbored piston and new rings. I don't need a new piston and my rings look dandy but he insists I should at least change the rings cause I "did all that work already" Is their a mechanical disadvantage to reusing piston rings that are in good condition? I figure they're already mated to the cylinder so I wouldnt have to concern myself with a new break in period.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #1 - 09/13/09 at 02:31:28
 
Its my understanding that if rings are moved( rotated) in the bore, then they are no longer seated.Theyll no longer be riding in the exact same place. If youve pulled the piston out, I think youll be reseating the rings. Not a big "Inside the engine" mechanic, tho, so youll need to wait on an answer from someone else, thats just my .02..
& I wouldnt be messing with the rings, even if I hadnt found the leak,not if it was running okay.
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BurnPgh
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #2 - 09/13/09 at 04:54:07
 
okay well...still...rings are in good condition. Worse case then is I have a break in period anyway and don't shell out another $40? Im hoping...maybe......say yes.
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Routy
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #3 - 09/13/09 at 06:18:29
 
In past years I have rebuilt many engines, small block chevs mosty, but several MC engines, along w/ Kohler mower engines too. And I have never known to reuse piston rings. But thats probably because the rings were most times the reason for the dismantle in the first place. But I know it is not commonly done, except maybe to save a buck.

You say the rings were in good condition,.......so did you....or whoever, install a ring (off the piston) in the cylinder and check that the end gap was w/in tollerence ?

All that a loose piston will do is cause noise, (slap) as all a piston does is move the rings up and down in the cylinder. A loose piston will not cause it to use oil. But rings w/ to much end gap will not only pass oil (oil ring) but will also pass compression. (comp ring)
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« Last Edit: 09/13/09 at 08:08:53 by Routy »  

Rich
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BurnPgh
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #4 - 09/13/09 at 11:18:11
 
same buddy pushing me for an overbore checked it.  Now about whether or not I'll need to break it in again...
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #5 - 09/13/09 at 11:53:44
 
Did your friend use a micrometer to measure the piston & compare to specs? Did he use a cylinder bore gauge to check cylinder wear, or an inside mic. to measure bore size to determine wear? Cylinders wear to a barrel shape so only by measuring this taper can you determine what needs to be done. Are you going to break the glaze on the cyl. walls (providing it doesn't need to be bored)? Just a few of the ? I have before deciding what to do.

If you were using oil, I would replace the rings. While it's easy to check end gaps on compression rings to check for wear, I know of no good way to be sure oil control rings still have proper tension to maintain a good seal.
If it was mine & didn't need boring I would still hone the cyl. & replace the rings. I would also do a search to see if anyone offers a 'gapless' ring set. Leakdown tests on engines I've built with them typically have 2-3% leakage compared to 6-7%+ with normal rings. After a full season of races they are still 2-3% & normal rings are as much as 12%. If you are already this far into it don't cheap out now, it will just bite you in the butt later. JMO
And it might be worth it to take the piston & cylinder to a machine shop & pay them to check it for you.

Hope this helps. Smiley

BTW, I'm an ASE Certified Master auto tech. & I've built a few engines over the years.
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Max_Morley
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #6 - 09/13/09 at 17:59:41
 
Max an ex certified ASE master Tech and 29 year of teaching automotive technology says, "put in new rings after carefully measuring per the above post.
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #7 - 09/13/09 at 19:20:19
 
Rings rotate on the piston ! They dont stay clocked in the same place for very long. Valve stem seals are your best bet for oil probs...
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #8 - 09/13/09 at 22:00:30
 
He did all the measuring and assured me it was within specs in the Cylmers while silutaneously telling me I should get a overbore and weisco piston and maybe shave the head down for more compression. He's a huge gearhead and does all this kind of suping up on his quads and bikes. But yes, unless he's lying to me bold faced. He also recommended a similar break in procedure to that which was apparently used by stimpy except all of his references to duration was in hours of operation, not miles. When I asked if there was a mechanical disadvantage to using used but in spec rings he said he didn't really know. He'd always just replaced them.
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #9 - 09/13/09 at 22:35:59
 
I'm going in the way of the wiseco piston for the dr650.
the stock size for a dr650 is a 1mm overbore for us.
you can get them on fleabay search 4597M* and all the sizes will pop up.  One guy has it for 126 and change.  These are higher compression pistons with reliefs for the valves.

That, a lancer cam and a super chain should do ya.  I think it'll bring the compression up to 9 but not sure.  and I'm getting the nikelsil.

Grin
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #10 - 09/13/09 at 22:50:28
 
I dont really want an overbore and I apparently dont need one. Its just that since my friend always has used new rings he couldnt say whether or not it would be okay to use used, but in spec rings. The Clymers also does not specfically state that you must use new rings if they and the piston and cylinder are all okay. The basic consensus here seems to be that I ought to get new ones anyway as I'll have to break the old ones in all over again anyway. Am I correct in that? I COULD use old ones but I'd have to reseat the rings anyway so I might aswell get new ones?
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #11 - 09/14/09 at 07:22:00
 
BurnPgh wrote on 09/13/09 at 22:50:28:
I'll have to break the old ones in all over again anyway. Am I correct in that? I COULD use old ones but I'd have to reseat the rings anyway so I might aswell get new ones?


NO you would NOT need to do a break in unless you used NEW rings and a fresh bore !
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #12 - 09/14/09 at 08:16:14
 
Verslagen,

We will await the post run in oil consumption report.  Don't forget to the lap the valves in, check valve stems for rock and put in them new stem seals.

Is there any PSI to compression ratio table out there that would allow you to easy calculate the compression ratio that you wind up with?

I'd hate to have to go to premium gas, but the cost per two gallon fill up might be worth it .....

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Re: Piston rings
Reply #13 - 09/14/09 at 09:00:38
 
If things go well, should start the rebuild this winter.   Cool

As far as gas goes, I maybe siphoning by brothers race car when he ain't lookin'.   Roll Eyes
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BurnPgh
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Re: Piston rings
Reply #14 - 09/14/09 at 12:11:39
 
alright...new rings it is. Might aswell I geuss.

Thoughts on break in. Should I just ride easy and vary RPMs for 500 mi as per the owners manual or does anyone recommend the more agrressive break in method as used by stimpy?

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