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OEM Air Cleaner (Read 374 times)
Routy
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OEM Air Cleaner
09/12/09 at 06:35:44
 
Just what is it about the stock air filter that makes for the modifications I read about. I don't see anything that could/should be improved.

Rich
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Rich
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #1 - 09/12/09 at 06:50:00
 
  I don't see a reason either Stock works good.
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #2 - 09/12/09 at 07:41:45
 
Less restriction, better breathing....
better breathing, more power,... goes hand in hand with less restrictive muffler and carb rejet.
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #3 - 09/12/09 at 07:59:04
 
Less restriction also means more dirt gets into your engine.  Read this:

http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #4 - 09/12/09 at 08:03:18
 
  You can get more high end power but then you lose low end power,So if you drag at the strip then the high end power works. If you want to pull strong from 40 mph in high gear you only need the jetting.
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #5 - 09/12/09 at 08:48:40
 
PM me if you want a perfectly good stock air filter for 5 bucks.  And hey, per the owner's manual you can use it indefinitely by blowing it out with compressed air!  Cheesy   Don't do that.

PS. Far be it for me to contradict Gort  Grin  and there's a grain of truth to it, but the less restriction = more dirt is a crude rule of thumb that ignores the filter area and type.
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #6 - 09/12/09 at 10:37:13
 
Part of what air filters retain are petroleum contaminants as are found in industrial air pollution, exhaust from other tailpipes, etc.  These oil based contaminants cannot be blown out of any filter with an air pressure hose.  They must be removed with the appropriate chemistry, which is why you cannot re-use paper air filters, and which is why KN tells you to use a filter oil otherwise their filter will be ruined.

As for less filter restriction= more dirt being a crude rule of thumb, that is an unsupported assumption.  Here is yet another test showing that the more air that gets in, the more dirt also.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

In addition, it is not possible to determine the effectiveness of an air filter's ability to retain dirt by just looking to see how much dirt it has captured.  Their are far too many variables to consider, such as the environment in which you use it, contaminants that have passed through the filter without leaving stains on the filter, amount of time the filter has been used and so on.  This is why filters are tested in labs using controlled conditions and very expensive equipment.  Home testing is a guess, at best.
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« Last Edit: 09/12/09 at 13:28:11 by Arthur »  
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #7 - 09/12/09 at 19:52:46
 
Arthur wrote on 09/12/09 at 10:37:13:
..oil based contaminants cannot be blown out of any filter with an air pressure hose.  They must be removed with the appropriate chemistry, which is why you cannot re-use paper air filters..

I didn't think of that, but it seems like another good reason not to reuse paper.. so bizarre that it's recommended in the owner's manual!  I mean, even back in high school auto mechanics we were told DO NOT blow out and reuse a paper filter.  But the rationale was different.. the airstream will destroy the uniformity of the paper fibers and give you clumps where no air passes and larger holes where dirt flies right through.  


Quote:
As for less filter restriction= more dirt being a crude rule of thumb, that is an unsupported assumption.  Here is yet another test showing that the more air that gets in, the more dirt also.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Yes but Bob forgot to correct for difference in filter area among the brands Tongue

Imagine a small filter made out of that blue fiberglass stuff from a cheap air conditioner filter, you know the kind you can see through and almost put your pinky through. Now think of a much larger filter made of a really dense paper like an AC Delco car filter.  The two filters could have the same restriction, that is, the same flow rate at a given pressure drop, but I guarantee you the larger and tighter filter is going to catch more dirt per cubic foot of air.  I realize the area of different filters that can work on a Savage isn't going to vary by a huge amount, but wanted to make sure the point was understood.
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #8 - 09/13/09 at 02:09:04
 
What causes you to think about it is the first time you need to replace it and they hit you up for approaching $50 to do so.  That's $50 every couple of years ...

==================

Is there anything wrong with the stock Suzuki filter?  No, it is balanced with the rest of the Suzuki system, it is relatively restrictive and it does a good job of stopping dirt for a fair period of several years.

Improving on it is a matter of opinion and trade off.  Those who want more hp are going to want to rebalance the engine with less exhaust restriction and less intake restriction (with changes to carburetor to accomodate this increased air flow rebalance).

A moderate rebalance for a new rider is to use the stock muffler and increase the air flow through the intake system, this can be accommodated without a rejet through white spacer mod and air screw tuning.  I rode like this for years and was quite happy with it.

Then I ground my muffler cover plate mounting bracket in half and knocked the welds on my muffler mount loose as a result of that, so I chose to replace the stock muffler with a Dyna and started on the chain of pure hp modifications.

The bike is not easier to live with, it makes more noise but it does seem to get out of its own way faster.  Mine isn't a virgin any more so I am continuing on down the hp path by slow degrees, taking my time and doing it slowly keeping my eyes open.

The hp path is a fiddler's path -- some of the road bumps on the way are increased oil consumption and an eventual case of piston slap noise and various motor rebuilds, some of which are needed and some of which are hobby driven.

Serenity ran a stockish motor for 56,000 miles with no real trouble with a stockish set up, so please let's not try to say the hp route is the "trouble free" route -- it isn't.

On the other end of the spectrum is REX, who seems to be apart more than he is together.  But that's his nature as an experimental test bed.

Where you fall in that spectrum tends to change with time.  I was a stocker type person, but as my stock bits broke I went cheap and handy on the replacement bits which has gradually put me on the hp path.
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #9 - 09/13/09 at 04:37:10
 
100% agree with oldfeller. You like it stock - by all means, keep it stock. I could add, altering a motorcycle (or anything else, per se) is almost never a matter of NEED. It's a matter of WANT. Challenge, imagination, competitive spirit, and all that crap. I started with "oh, I love this bike, but it's kinda too quiet for that big single". And it opened a can of worms  Cheesy
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #10 - 09/13/09 at 06:28:40
 
dasch wrote on 09/13/09 at 04:37:10:
I started with "oh, I love this bike, but it's kinda too quiet for that big single". And it opened a can of worms  Cheesy


Same here.  Lips Sealed
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #11 - 09/13/09 at 06:39:17
 
Thanks for the insite to the stock system.

The reason I asked the question was because I don't notice any rich fuel condition under WOT, nor any stumble when backing off.
I did drill the exhaust a little, which of course make it seem faster,....and if not faster, a little louder. It sounds better if nothing else,.....and I don't like the sound of a "woosie" bike, as my son calls them.

The only "stock bike" problem that I can see/feel, is the lean fuel condition in the low speed (1/4 throttle) range, so I plan on doing the spacer...needle mod one of these days. Except for that, I think the bike runs perfect, sounds good, and under WOT,  it'll scare me just the way it is ! Shocked
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Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #12 - 09/13/09 at 07:20:56
 
i just desnorkled and left the cover of the airbox with a a stock air filter. the bikes sounds and rides very different. for the better of course.
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93" savage, 177.5 main, 52.5 w/holes 3 turns out , middle circlip, 6" k&n round filter, Dyna muffler, TKAT brace
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #13 - 09/16/09 at 16:35:57
 
Jabman, you got pictures you could share?
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Re: OEM Air Cleaner
Reply #14 - 09/17/09 at 00:25:30
 
sure, what do you need?  1,pop of the seat  2,grab rubber snorkel that goes to the airbox which is under the seat 3, pull upwards and it comes out.

i also removed the side cover of my airbox, where you get to the filter

1 remove seat 2 remove right metal panel 3 remove plastic air box cover 4 insure filter is in place 5 put back together

i pulled the idle screw out 1/2 a turn to compensate

since doing this i have got a lot more induction noise, and a much better overall sound, i was disappointed with the dyna muffler untill i did this, now im very happy with it

but today i intend on pulling the whole air box and installing a round k&n filter

i hope it doesn't mess the sound up!
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93" savage, 177.5 main, 52.5 w/holes 3 turns out , middle circlip, 6" k&n round filter, Dyna muffler, TKAT brace
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