All syn is $10 plus a quart --
All syn is overpriced and overhyped ---



Rotella Syn at Wally costs $19 a gallon or about $5 a quart.

That's $10 bucks a whole oil change

(or $10 bucks for a year's worth of oil if you run a super magnet on the filter and don't have a really leaky bike.)

This is one perfectly good synthetic oil that doesn't break your wallet.

Bill, Bill .....  spin doctoring and sinking down to using Obama math -- I expected better from you.

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Klotz thought the internet costs you $11 a quart plus $8.75 in shipping cost to actually get it to you.

Lets see, that's $30.75 for an oil change (we are going to assume we both use an oil filter, so the filter is a wash for this analysis).

I use a half gallon of the Rotella Syn that I pick up from the local Walmart at $19.00 a gallon which I will round up to costing me $10 for oil change for ease of calc.

Let's see, thats $20 difference for the first change.  Or, if you want to say it another way I can do my oil portion of the change two extra times for a total of three times for the same money you drop on your Klotz oil change.

3 years worth of oil only changes vs one year of oil change for the same money, plus I get the additives that the Savage's cam lobes and tappets and chain need and maybe you don't (ain't heard nothing about Klotz carrying any extra ZDDP in its mix and ain't gonna bother to look neither).

Or, if I save $20 each oil change I'd save a theoretical $60 over the three changes.  Any way you want to say it, the advantage goes cleanly to the Rotella Syn oil.

I liked Klotz two stroke oil back in the day because it didn't smoke near as bad as dino two stroke did, but I find the current 4 stroke stuff just way too pricey for my blood.

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BTW, I generously assumed you kept a magnet on your oil filer and kept your oil in the case for a full year like I do -- but you don't, do you?   You change your oil at least twice a year, don't you?  So, the cost advantage for Rotella Syn is really over twice as much as said above, isn't it?




(a little bit of twistie the 'ol knife, combined with a retro drop in technique -- these oil wars are endlessly entertaining, aren't they?)

Pssst, hey Bill, he rides to get the erl, so its not a big expense AND that expense is offset, by grinning on the trip.

The 5w40 designation means Rotella Syn doesn't change thickness very much when it gets cold or gets hot.

It is "fully warmed up" from the get go as far as how it first circulates in a cold engine.  
It moves quicker to lube your cam journal bearings and tranny cross shafts as our puny oil pump can move it more effectively.

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You are the second or third person to say the tranny shifts better compared to previous oils.

Keep track of that mileage thing, that is interesting.

With a new car, it is recomended NOT to switch over to a syn to at least 3,000 miles. What would be recomended for our 650's? I have about 1,800 miles on mine.

Syn are definately recomended with Turbo's. Turbo Corvair owners really try for the diesel syn. Engine temps on these cars can run up around 450 degrees on a turbo car along with being flat tappet cams. Take that temp and shut the engine off, the oil around the turbo does not become happy.

Turbo shut down cooking dino based oils into a solid has been long documented among the turbo crowd as the number one reason of turbo failure.

Turbos run exhaust pipe hot and when you shut them off they take the oil in circulation in their bearings up to over 350 degrees F in some instances.

The only oil that can stand this sort of "heat soak attack" at turbo shut down is a syn oil -- you instantly void the warranty on a turbo equipped Corvette if you run a dino or a dino/syn blend even once.

voldigicam wrote on 08/31/09 at 05:16:49:

The "40" part means that is meets certain viscosity specs at 100°C.  The "5W" part means that its viscosity at -30°C is no greater than the spec allows.  "15W" meets its thicker spec at -20°C.  (From the SAE J300 specs.)  The "synthetic" part means that the viscosity index is >120*, the saturates are equal or greater than 90%**, and sulfur is <0.3%.    

In practical terms, it all means that the oil isn't as thick when cold, doesn't thin as much when very hot, and lives longer before it oxidizes in service.

*Viscosity index is a numerical scale relating to the difference in viscosity between 40°C and 100°C.
**Saturates means that oxygen atoms in the oil molecule have been replaced by hydrogen atoms by a hydrogenation process.

http://www.infineum.com/information/api_tables/SAE%20Viscosity%20Grades%20For...

I suspect between the lot of us here on this list (historical as well as current) we have a man-century's worth of knowledge about this particular scooter.

It isn't perfect, but what bike really is?

It responds well to efforts to improve it as it is currently delivered in a mildly FU & intentionally screwed up state of tune (thanks to the EPA and the EC's hp limits for starter bikes for that sad state of affairs).  

Hey, at least we don't have to go fishing some stupid "limiter washers" out from behind our carb inlet rubber boot like the Europeans have to do now-a-days.

It is a low cost, high satisfaction scooter (especially if you get one used).

Makes the worlds best wee bagger style get around town bike OR a right satisfying clean looking bobber OR a killer looking cafe racer.  

Versatile !!

You can run it on the cheap, or you can dump endless money and attention into it, whatever trips your trigger.

Plus it comes with us, the list -- built in help, commentary, oil wars and riding friends.