See Verslagen and Justin playing "twist the knife" -- a time honored dirty pool oil warrior's technique.

A further purely fictional example of dirty pool oil war techniques follows ....

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Klotz was faced with a problem in the late 70's -- how to stay in business and get rid of this big oil tanker full of synthetic base stock we have laying around since all the two stroke street bikes have been outlawed by EPA and folks have quit buying our two stroke oil.

Huh, we have us a good brand name and some people trust us -- let's sell out this tank load of stuff as "improved" four stroke crankcase oil and raise the price per quart 150% and just keep on mentioning the fact that nobody will test their oil against our oil in their little faky funky ball bearing wear spot tests.  Customers will assume our stuff is better than their stuff instead of the awful truth, that nobody ever even thought to test our two stroke oil for use in a four stroke type  
of engine use test.  

We'll get rid of it all and go out of business before anybody catches on to us.

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Now, none of us would actually DO anything like that in an oil war, now would they?

Surely not.

jeez it doesn't go in the gas tank

come on fess up

verslagen1 wrote on 08/28/09 at 15:22:28:

I'd say that both are overpriced, but both are very good products.  I disagree with Amsoil's hype in their  marketing system, their promotion of greatly extended oil drain intervals, and their warranty that has exclusions that would trip up almost any claim.

Well, I'm with Oldfeller, I'm using Shell Rotella T.  It's cheap, I can get it when I want to, and my Savage likes it.  And, I'm not leaking any of it on the ground, or on the bike, or on ME!

Yes, I got the head plug fixed up real good this time.

Just a mild comment on how low it sometimes goes in the heat of an oil war.

At least my comment was truthfully portrayed as completely fictional whereas Bill likes to throw in his dead fish with a straight face.

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Klotz is actually very good, somewhat overly expensive niche oil.  They were the VERY BEST two stroke oil maker in the day and I ran the stuff and will give a personal testimony for it -- it lubricated an RD 400 engine that ran so hot and fast that it melted out the top of a piston.  And I rode the bike home because the lube never gave up and the melted lump of aluminum kept sliding up and down the bore (which wasn't hurt, BTW).  Klotz is good oil, just right pricy.

And there ain't really much difference between synthetic two stroke and synthetic four stroke oil -- syn base oil and additives in both cases, just some difference in the additives, most likely.

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Verslagen, "boiling off a syn oil" isn't really very likely.  Go to the turbo sites and turbo manufacturer sites and turbo Corvette sites and ask them how hot do the bearings in a turbo get and what sort of oil they recommend for those engines (the older style turbo units shared oil pressure with the engine oil gallery).  

Remember, Mobil 1 syn oil was originally developed for jet aircraft engines and the engineers put some in their cars as a whimsy and it worked so well for so long they convinced their bosses to market it as car oil.  And how hot do jet engine bearings get?

Now you could have extra loss past rings, seals and various leak positions over time because the syn oil stays loose and doesn't thicken up over time like dino does.

We all remember draining a thick sluggy stream of dino out of car a time or two, complete with lumps of even thicker stuff that made the stream change shape momentarily as it dwindled down.  You had to always drain your oil hot so as to get it to come out good, remember?

Syn you could drain cold as it just flows out.  No thick, no lumps, never any clotting left in the pan.  Out she runs ....

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So yes, you could lose more syn compared to dino in the same loose engine, especially if you are comparing a syn 5w40 to 20w50.  But you are losing like a quart a week .....  over half your oil exits the party every month and you are functionally changing out your oil pretty much completely every 2 months.  

You could use a dino oil with no issues at that rate of oil exchange and never even get it very dirty.

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/28/09 at 15:20:38:



I wasnt trying to say anything about the tested & proven high priced stuff. Im just saying that a low price, lower than normal, indicates a low quality. A high price? We Hope we are getting what we pay for, but we might be buying a low quality product with the price of a high quality product.
The reason I dont run a pricier oil is twofold. Mine leaks some, at the clutch actuator/ side cover o-ring & I think the Rotella-T 15/40 is providing sufficient protection to keep the engine/tranny happy & healthy for enough years that I wont care if its still running.

I think its a safe bet, because a diesel engine suffers higher heat & greater stresses than this little 650 does & they run millions of miles.