SuzukiSavage.com - Yet another oil war .....

PTRider

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #15 - 08/11/09 at 12:37:34

Less friction and less wear are not exactly the same thing. Some of the tribofilms the oil's components put on wear parts slow wear but have relatively high friction (zinc phosphate compounds). Others have both low wear and low friction (zinc phosphate compounds combined with moly compounds).

Even after the initial break in, the magnet will pick up a black "mud" of iron and steel wear particles from the cams & followers, piston rings, cylinder liner, transmission gears, cam chain pins & sprockets, and any other ferrous parts. It will provide a pretty good measure of the rate of wear.

Oldfella, it's hard to give an objective answer to your question. We know that Rotella certainly won't cause an engine disaster, and that many riders with many thousands of miles use that oil with good results. Could their results be better with a different oil? That's what is hard to measure outside a testing lab or with carefully designed trials.

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Gort Ex Member	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #16 - 08/11/09 at 12:38:42 Correct, Shell Rotella doesn't make oil for Mobil or Klotz. Shell makes Rotella for diesel engines.
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Duane Senior Member Offline Creatively Maladjusted Posts: 335 Terra Plane Gender:	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #17 - 08/11/09 at 12:40:11 I stick to what it says on the cap where you put the oil in myself.
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bill67

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #18 - 08/11/09 at 12:46:00

PTRider wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:37:34:

Less friction and less wear are not exactly the same thing. Some of the tribofilms the oil's components put on wear parts slow wear but have relatively high friction (zinc phosphate compounds). Others have both low wear and low friction (zinc phosphate compounds combined with moly compounds).

Even after the initial break in, the magnet will pick up a black "mud" of iron and steel wear particles from the cams & followers, piston rings, cylinder liner, transmission gears, cam chain pins & sprockets, and any other ferrous parts. It will provide a pretty good measure of the rate of wear.

Oldfella, it's hard to give an objective answer to your question. We know that Rotella certainly won't cause an engine disaster, and that many riders with many thousands of miles use that oil with good results. Could their results be better with a different oil? That's what is hard to measure outside a testing lab or with carefully designed trials.

Take some smooth sand paper and rough sandpaper which has the most friction which will wear down the wood are metal faster.

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william h krumpen

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #19 - 08/11/09 at 12:47:58

bill67 wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:19:33:

I don't think the metal on the magnet would mean anything a newer motor would have more,I think a dyno test to see which put out the most horsepower would show which had the less friction.

Of course the test would be done well after break-in, so the engine wouldn't be sloughing metal left and right. We are also talking about two consecutive 1000-mile intervals.. probably not much difference due to age.

verslagen1 wrote on 08/11/09 at 11:42:48:

Good suggestion, however, aluminum is non-magnetic.

I suggest that we take stock filters only, add the OF super mag mod, soak the filter in oil for 24 hrs. then drain on its side for 24 hrs. Then weight. Put in bike, run for 1000 miles, remove, drain like before and weight.

Not totally 100% as captured dirt will weigh in. But better than trying to pick aluminum dust out of the filter.

Yeah, the magnet doesn't catch the aluminum, so you would have to assume that the wear on the aluminum parts is in proportion to wear on the steel parts. By the filter-weighing method, the assumption is that contaminants like dirt and clutch plate material don't overwhelm the weight of metal due to engine wear.

OldFeller shall decide which assumption is best, haha Cheesy

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #20 - 08/11/09 at 12:55:45 Klotz gives you more horsepower and better gas mileage and its made for ,guess what, motorcycles.
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serenity3743

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #21 - 08/11/09 at 13:45:39

Bear_Rider wrote on 08/11/09 at 09:37:14:

I have a slight oil leak around the head bolt located just above the exhaust (not the rubber plug), as has been reported by others on this site. I don't know if this is linked to the use of a synthetic or not.

Are you sure that's not the rubber plug? My first problem with the rubber plug, about 40K ago, showed up in that spot. Undecided

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2000 LS650P Suzuki windshield, luggage rack, saddle bag racks, k & n air filter, Dyna muffler,2/3 white spacer, do-it-myself seat. Love to ride!

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Charon

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #22 - 08/11/09 at 18:11:17

bill67 wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:55:45:

Klotz gives you more horsepower and better gas mileage and its made for ,guess what, motorcycles. Cool

Prove it. The part about being made for motorcycles may be easy, if you can prove they don't market the exact same product with different labelling for other uses. But proving "more horsepower and better gas mileage" will be very difficult. "More horsepower and better gas mileage" than what? Under what conditions? I personally think you have fallen for advertising hype.

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Eschew obfuscation.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #23 - 08/11/09 at 18:18:29 I said the only way to test oil is to put the motorcycle on a dyno to see what oil makes a motor put out the most power,I used Klotz long before I new It gave you more horsepower and gas mileage.BTW how is Sea Foam working for you.
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Gort

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #24 - 08/11/09 at 18:29:24

Klotz is a synthetic oil and compared to non-synthetic oils, will give better gas mileage and "more" horsepower, simply because synthetic oils reduce the friction between moving parts, thus requiring less horsepower to move those parts. If it takes less horsepower, then you don't use as much gas. This matter is widely known and there are many old, respected tests showing this.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28890 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #25 - 08/11/09 at 18:35:48 Arthur wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:38:42: Correct, Shell Rotella doesn't make oil for Mobil or Klotz. Shell makes Rotella for diesel engines. So why in the world would post non requested data?
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verslagen1

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #26 - 08/11/09 at 18:42:00

youzguyz wrote on 08/11/09 at 11:56:05:

When I was in the Navy (many moons ago) there was this oil spectrometer thinga-ma-jig machines that they would use to test helicopter engine and transmission oils.
Go get yerself one of them and have all the fun you could possibly want.
It sure was a piece of crud.. guy spent most of his time trying to get the "benchmark" samples to read what they should.

Couldn't find any thingamajigs on sale

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #27 - 08/11/09 at 18:46:13 Honda recommends Rotella now for racing,I didn't know that.
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Gort

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Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Reply #28 - 08/11/09 at 19:40:13

verslagen1 wrote on 08/11/09 at 18:35:48:

Arthur wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:38:42:

Correct, Shell Rotella doesn't make oil for Mobil or Klotz. Shell makes Rotella for diesel engines.

So why in the world would post non requested data?

Because in this world two other members posted their oil preferences earlier in the thread, and because O.F. falsely stated that we all agree that his favorite diesel oil is best for the Savage, when he clearly knows we do not all agree with him. Uniformed members look to this site for advice, and it is irresponsible to mislead them, especially on something as important as oil for their bikes.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju Reply #29 - 08/11/09 at 19:44:52 For all of the differenced motorcycle oils in the world why would someone use a diesel oil,Unless you have a diesel motorcycle
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