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Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this way? (Read 672 times)
voldigicam
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Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this way?
08/08/09 at 02:12:21
 
Seems like there's lots of regular maintenance.  Weird stuff, too.  Torque head bolts.  What car needs that these days?  Short oil change intervals are OK.  But having to disassemble the cam cover every year?  And having to check the cam chain?  What if that tensioner is bad?  Lots of work.  

Are all motorcycles this way?  I'm kind of surprised at how much is called for so often.  If I find there's too much to track all the time, maybe a different bike would be in order.  No idea what would be lower maintenance.

How far do these 650s go before they really get "old"?  I drive cars to 250,000 / 400,000 miles and generally find they're mostly falling apart by then.  More trouble crops up than is worth fixing.  When does a Savage reach that typically?  How about other bikes?

I sat on a Triumph Bonneville today.  Pretty nice.  $3000. 2001 version.  But heavier I think, and not so much better fit as to make me wish to change out bikes.

But some of those Honda Shadows.  Or even the next size up Suzuki.  They look pretty nice.
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Toymaker
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #1 - 08/08/09 at 05:30:24
 
Can I ask why you need to pull the cam cover every year?

Torquing head bolts happens maybe every 10,000 miles.

Not much really to do with bikes....anyone? Smiley
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #2 - 08/08/09 at 06:17:57
 
If you can seriously find an easier and cheaper bike to up keep, then you should get it. These are like polar opposites of Harley's when it comes to being maintained.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #3 - 08/08/09 at 06:51:48
 
This is a "thumper", so as a rule things start to ratttle and fall off more often than a balanced multi, like say a Goldwing. Thread lock will solve most of those problems. It is air cooled. Heat kills engines. When did you last see an air cooled VW bug with 100,000miles that hadn't been rebuilt? I have had my Savage for less than a year. So far I find it to be more work than my '76 Wing, a lot more than my Kawa Voyagers, and a whole lot less work than my Harley or Matchless. The best part of this bike for me, aside from the sheer FUN!, is that you can maintain it yourself. Like the old 45cal Auto, I believe you could field strip this bike with a pocket knife or a nail file. And lets face it, if you are posting here, you are interested in making your bike "Your Bike". Show me another motorcycle that you can mod like this without a real fat wad of cash. The last one that comes to mind was made 40 years ago.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #4 - 08/08/09 at 07:39:53
 
That head retorque thing,, I have 20,000 on mine, those head bolts have never been touched.

As for the valves, Now that I set them down as tight as the specs allow & all the contact points have had plenty of time banging into each other, they dont need set near as often. The contact points seem to have "work hardened" or Im just doing something better.

The cam chain needs looked at around 15,000 miles.

Once you get it all sorted out, its just change oil & tires & ride & have a look at things so nothing gets out of hand.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #5 - 08/08/09 at 08:44:54
 
Nothing on this bike is difficult to do. I work on mine in the grass outside as I have no garage. Get the Clymers, the CD if still available, and browse this site. You can make it what you want it to be. One thing mine has been is RELIABLE! There are some very sharp folks on here that have some fantastic mods if you wish to do them. BTW, I have over 20K on mine and just checked the cam chain tensioner. It was OK but I modded it at the same time. Never been to the dealer.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #6 - 08/08/09 at 09:09:54
 
I've had the '96 from 16k till 44k miles, over 2 years.
I've had to do the verslavy mod, but I also pulled the cover to measure the cam chain stretch.  And replace the head plug.  I've had the petcock issue.  Other than wear items and cosmetics, nothing else.  Well I did replace the fork seals, but they weren't leaking, but wanted to replace the oil and didn't want to replace the seals later.

I bought an '88 recently with a burnt piston.  20k on the ticker.
Found a wrecked '02 with 10k and swapped engines and most of the hardware.

My mechanical knowledge is limited to pre smog, carborated engines.
I really enjoy working on this bike when I have to.  Once you have the tools (wrenches and such) you don't need much else.  And everyone is equiped with the engine extraction tools, Mr left and Mr right.  True, some will need a second set of those but it can be done.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #7 - 08/08/09 at 09:20:22
 
Perhaps we need to differentiate between what is called for by the manual, and what seems to be really needed. The manual calls for retorquing the head bolts every 4000 miles, which requires removing the head cover. The manual calls for checking and adjusting the valves every 4000 miles, which will be needed after removing the head cover because part of the valve mechanism is on the head cover.

Most motorcycles are considerably more maintenance intensive than cars, if you follow the book. If you don't want to adjust valves (who does?) you will have to look for a bike with hydraulic valves - which will be a lower revving model such as a V-Twin. If you don't want to retorque head bolts you will probably have to go to liquid cooling - which adds complications of its own. I have no experience with cam chains, except that they typically last the life of the engine in cars. If they don't on bikes, blame poor design.

I do not understand the rationale for short oil change intervals on bikes, unless it the the "fault" of the transmission gear train running in the same oil and reducing the oil viscosity by shearing.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #8 - 08/08/09 at 09:24:34
 
For low maintenance and long life, get a Honda with hydraulic lifters and shaft drive...
But,... like a modern car,.. you won't be able to service it yourself and it'll cost an arm and a leg to get anything done at the dealer....

Our Savages are basically Model-T technology with the exception of electronic ignition...

Other bikes have fuel injection, computers, radiators, fuel pumps, etc...
Can make the bike run better for longer, but these things also can break and will cost more to fix...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #9 - 08/08/09 at 10:21:22
 
Well.  I am sure I could take a Honda Goldwing completely apart and reassemble.  I have no interest in doing so.  The only thing I haven't rebuilt/fixed on a car at one point or another is an automatic transmission.

So it seems that the frequent checks and so on may not really be needed.  If nothing appears amiss.  I imagine the valves will stay adjusted for a while now that I have them right.  There's nothing to go wrong with the belt really, so long as I check the pulleys every once and a while.  I'm probably just getting overexposed to problems on this forum!!!  

On the oil issue, use in a wet plate clutch is bound to tear up oil much more rapidly than in simple lubrication use.  

As far as temperature - I'm very surprised how cool the engine runs  Really seems to radiate heat nicely.  

On general maintenance, I looked at the newer Harleys just a few miniutes ago.  Looks like they've aimed to get maintenance requirements to a minimum.  But they're still pretty heavy.  I liked the 883 low best in looks and feel, except wanted a higher seat - the nice man attempted to get me to ride one!  Just felt heavy, but probably much different rolling.  Still, given my low-speed, tight turn roads I suspect something more flickable is much better!

The failings I'm noting after riding up in the mountains this morning are a bit of a squirrelly feeling front end that also gives a rough ride, and the buzz after 30 minutes at 60.  I expect grips would help that a bit.  My makeshift backrest did very very well. Comfortable.  Oh, and the short footpegs!!!
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #10 - 08/08/09 at 10:40:08
 
"probably just getting overexposed to problems on this forum!!! "

That's a definite... Try any bike or car specific site and it's full of problems...
That's when most members post,... when they have a problem, and need advice...

It's basically a pretty sturdy bike, and it's fairly forgiving about it's maintenance schedules...

The weakest link,... seems to be the cam chain, some have gone as early as 8K miles, others have past 30K without problem...
I wonder if it's too low of an idle speed effecting chain longevity...
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #11 - 08/08/09 at 15:43:41
 
At least the S40/Savage only has one of everything (x4 valves) to work on.  As already said, much in the book seems to be more for the stealership's revenue than for the engine's needs, plus a forum like this has lots and lots of discussion about maintenance.

My mechanic says that he's never found head bolts that were loose, and he no longer checks their tightness during routine maintenance checks.

I suspect that the cam chain wear has a relationship to the oil used.  The chain will probably wear fastest when automotive 10W-40 oil is used, and wear slowest when an oil with a very high content of antiwear compounds were blended in by the oil maker.  Also, modern oils have to meet tougher wear testing with each new generation of diesel (Cummins ISB & ASTM D5966) or gasoline* (Sequence IV-A & Sequence VIII) engine oils.

I'd look at a Buell** instead of a Harley.  Harleys just seem to be prehistoric.

*I omitted the SM gasoline engine oils, because no one here is suggesting that anyone use one that also isn't at least rated for diesels as well.

**Or a MotoGuzzi (except the bad years) or a modern Triumph, or one of the Japanese bikes, or a really clean older BMW.  Ducatis are too trick to work on and modern BMWs are really gimmicky.  When I find a 650 V-Strom at a really good price I'll have a dilema.  The Savage is a low cost entry level cruiser where Suzuki got a LOT of things right, and it's just lots of fun.  I could use a bigger frame bike and might want to use a bike on gravel forest roads, but I'm sure having fun on my Savage.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #12 - 08/08/09 at 17:06:10
 
I must have been rewarded with a bike that was either treated well by the PO, or worked on internally by a good mechanic (signs of sealant on both cylinder seams), or both. Outside of the head cap leak, I've had no major issues with it at all. I change the oil/filter on a regular basis, tighten nuts and bolts, changed the air filter and installed a battery in the almost year and a half that I've owned it. Rolled over 20K a couple of weeks ago and have never had the tank off. It runs sweet.

My 2 Sportster's, a '72 and an early '84, both required carrying a full set of tools at all times. I've pushed the '72 2 miles home, had them both in the back of pickup trucks more times than I care to remember, and always had grease under my fingernails. And, the oil leaks were much worse than the Savage. The '72 faired better than the '84 that blew a rod. Both had carb problems, the '72 had a Mikuni and the 84 had an SS, but neither I, or any of my mechanic friends could ever get them right. Talk about high maintenance! So, with my limited experience with 2 iron head HD's, the Savage is a dream bike in comparison. Sure there are design flaws, like why the heck they decided to put the spark plug in a place that requires removing the tank, but there's even a mod for that.

Right now I need a rear tire/tube/strip, brake pads all around and need to check my cam chain and tensioner. The rear tire is getting done by a shop and I'll probably have them throw pads in while they have the wheel off. Some things are worth paying for. Found a independent shop with good rates close by me. Just have to bring him the tire and pads. The cam work I'll do myself. All of that after almost 1 1/2 years and over 7000 miles spent riding, not wrenching. Not bad at all.
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #13 - 08/08/09 at 17:36:13
 
I have put almost 6000 miles on my bike and not one problem, but I have not taken it apart   Smiley  to make it run better either, most of the problems with s40 is the loose nut that connects the handel bar to the seat Wink
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most problems are caused by the loose nut that conects the handelbars to the seat
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Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa
Reply #14 - 08/09/09 at 21:02:01
 
The bike needs a fork brace. Doesnt matter if you dont thru a corner over 30 mph, it will feel more sure footed & your grip will relax & some of that Buzz will go away. See how softly you can hold the bars & wear padded gloves. The Buzz in the boots feels good to me.
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