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my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure... (Read 222 times)
Bryan
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my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
08/05/09 at 07:51:02
 
Okay, I had my first adventure last night with my bike, and have lots of questions (I bolded them all in case you wanna skip the rest; I have a rambling problem).

First of all, I'm not a mechanic.  I do as much work on my car as I can, mostly filters, belts, brakes.  I have absolutely no experience with motorcycles or small engines.

I bought a 96 Savage two days ago.  It's my first motorcycle.  It's got 2300 miles on it, and the title from 2000 says it has 1900 miles.  So in the last 9 years, it's been driven a whopping 400 miles, so it's been sitting around a lot.

The guy trying to sell it to me pulls up in his car with the battery in hand, cause he had it charged.  Well it wasn't charged enough, so he decided to jump the bike from a car.  Is that a good idea?  If not, where can I take it to get it charged?  It seemed to work, but I'm just not sure if that should be done...

It took us quite a few tries to get in running, but we finally did.  We let it idle a bit, and tried to take it for a test drive, but anytime you gave it some gas it would backfire like crazy and have no power.  I phoned a friend that knows a lot of mechanical stuff and he told me the carburetor probably needed to be cleaned, and the bike was probably fine if I wanted to buy it.  I couldn't turn down a bike with only 2300 miles, so I bought it.

My friend said the problem was likely the carb, but the owner said it could be the spark plug, and since I've never even touched a carb I figured I'd stick with what I know, so I decided to change the plug.  What an adventure...

I was able to move the fuel tank out of the way by disconnecting the vacuum line and leaving the fuel line connected.  Later I saw in the Clymer that the fuelc0ck can be set to the "off" position and the fuel tank can be removed.  My bike doesn't have an "off" position.  Would I just use ON or RES?  Would fuel still leak out?

I didn't have an 18mm spark plug socket so I went and bought one from Autozone.  The stupid thing's too big to fit down in there, so I've gotta go find one that'll fit today.  I normally buy Craftsman.  Anyone used a Craftsman 18mm spark plug socket?  Will it fit, or should I look for another brand?

I was gonna buy carb cleaner (the kind in the spray can) but I had some injection cleaner already and the guy at Autozone told me they were the same thing (are they?) so I sprayed some of that in the carb to see if it would help.  It didn't.

My friend said I could possibly put some fuel treatment in the gas tank, top it off, and let it idle for a bit to see if that would get it running any better.  I bought some Sea Foam cause I heard it's the best.  Haven't used it yet.  I'm afraid to let it idle too long honestly, cause it's air cooled. What's the longest amount of time I should let the engine run if I'm not moving?

Okay, so I'm gonna (hopefully) change the spark plug and run some Sea Foam through it tonight and see if that does anything.  I think my last resort is taking off the carb and cleaning it.  Are the instructions in the Clymer manual sufficient for cleaning the carb?  I saw a link to a manual just for the carburetor somewhere; should I use that instead?  It looked like I basically just have to take it apart and soak everything in carb cleaner, but I have no experience with carburetors, and it looks like there are a million little pieces.  Do I need any special tools?

Lastly, and maybe more importantly, does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be wrong with the bike and what I need to do about it?  Thanks for all of your help!
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #1 - 08/05/09 at 08:41:09
 
The bikes been sitting too long.  Most bikes don't wear out, they die of neglect.
The jets and passages in the carb will be gummed up.  Needs cleaning.
You can try Seafoam additive if you like, but I'd pull the carb and clean it out.
Seems like I have to do it with every bike I buy.
People buy them and don't ride them, gas turns bad...
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #2 - 08/05/09 at 08:43:17
 
Get a new battery, save the headaches for other stuff.
Fill the carb with seafoam let sit overnite, drain, put in tank with fresh gas.
When the engine is off so is the petcock.  Leave it in the "on" position.
Cleaning the outside of a carb does nothing but make it look pretty.
Becareful with the rubber stuff, that carb cleaner sometimes eats it.
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #3 - 08/05/09 at 08:55:36
 
I'm not the best one to answer these questions, but i'll take a swing at them:

1) most likely ok to jump a bike from a car. it was suggested i do that last winter when i wore my battery down trying to start my bike in 20 degree weather. i ended up push starting it down a nice big hill later... i'd imagine any motorcycle dealership can charge your battery, or you can pick up a trickle charger (better idea than the dealership) and charge it yourself. it would be good to get a charger if you plan on storing your bike for the winter.

2) I don't think any savage has an "off". "ON" works on a vacuum created from the engine, so "ON" shouldn't leak out more fuel then what is already in the line (couple of drops). "RES" works on vacuum too, but only use that when you've run out of gas in the "ON" position. think of the switch between RES and ON like a low fuel light. when you run out of gas in ON and switch to RES, you need to make your next stop a gas station (within 10-20 miles).

PRI works on gravity, and to make removing the tank easier you'll use this setting, combined with a gas can. leave the petcock in the ON position, disconnect the fuel hose and place it in a gas can, turn the petcock to PRI, and wait while the tank drains... this makes it much easier to remove the tank.

3) no idea about the socket... sorry

4) again, no idea about them being the same, but a can of carb cleaner is $2.5, so in my opinion it is worth it, just so i know i got the right stuff...

5) just guessing? 20-30 minutes. that isn't really how you are supposed to use sea-foam (there is a topic specifically about that here on the forum somewhere) but it might work. don't quote me on either of those things...

6) not in my opinion. I had a generous member (BurnPgh) of this forum come help me with the first time i took apart the carb, and i was really glad i had someone to help. things have a way of getting all messed up real fast... but i have a cloud of bad luck, so it might just be me. no special tools but infinite patience... maybe vice grips to tackle some of the screws up on top of the carb that are notorious for being softer than butter on a hot day.

7) check for oil, gas, and exhaust leaks. if the gas in the tank is old, replace it. run some sea-foam through it... find out when the last oil change was, you might want to put new oil in it. I'd say leave taking the carb apart for a last-resort kind of thing, but that is my opinion, and i'm sure 90% of this forum will say you can do it given a weekend afternoon... i'm just kinda weary of it.

keep the questions coming, i hope we can help.

as a side note, seeing as how you seem to be a newer rider, i'd look into taking a safety course for motorcycles. lots of good stuff in those classes.
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #4 - 08/05/09 at 09:17:14
 
Cool, thanks.  So it looks like the least I should do is put new gas in the tank, right?

verslagen1:
I didn't clean the outside of the carb.  I moved the rubber tube out of the way that connects the carb to the box that holds the air filter and sprayed it right in that sucker.  Leaving Sea Foam sitting in the carb overnight won't hurt the rubber stuff either?  What's the best way to get it in the carb?  Pour it in the fuel line?

spacepirates:
I've used Sea Foam in my car before, normally I just put it in my gas tank.  On the can it says you can do all kinds of stuff, like add it to the fuel, add it to the oil, or even pour it into your carburetor, but I'm no expert.  I'll try to find that post about Sea Foam.  Yeah, I'm a new rider.  I took the safety course, but it didn't teach me anything about mechanics, so this is all new.  I'm having fun though.  I'll be having even more fun once I get this thing running Smiley
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #5 - 08/05/09 at 09:32:42
 
2300 miles aint anything great, in the last 8 months I bought an 87 with 2522 and a 00 with 3312. The 87 had carbs that were black as tar ...
This is the pic ...
http://picasaweb.google.com/srinath.the.man/GummedUpCarbs#

The 00 luckily had no carbs ... right ... none ... I bought from sakara and threw it in and had it running in minutes.

The Sea foam trick will work only if its lightly gummed. Like mine, it wont make a scratch on it. I went through mine with gas carb spray cleaner and a brush ... hours together ... over many many days.
Like first scrape and take off as much of the glazed crap as you can. Then, soak in gas a few days. Then brush it in the gas. You can add seafoam or whatever to that gas ... makes not much diff. Then spray everythign and brush. Then soak back in fresh gas a few days ... repeat ... progressively you'd open up more and more and more of the carb. The gum wil lhave gummed the float pin stuck ... several rounds of this and it will come loose ... then the floats will need more cleaning and that will come off etc etc etc.

Anyway, clean the carbs drop a new battery in and most of the trouble will go away.

On and Res are both vacuum operated, pri is not. So it should close on those 2. However bad carb could also mean bad petcock. So one or more may may not work as intended.

On a hot day without air flow, I'd not run it more than 20 mins without moving.

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Srinath.
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #6 - 08/05/09 at 09:41:24
 
Yeah, pour it in anyway you can, drain the carb 1st.  You might put some in thru the vents.

And like srin says, you might still have to take it apart.  Not hard once you get the screws broke loose, let us know we'll tell you how.

There's a good carb clean post in the tect sect.
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #7 - 08/05/09 at 09:49:01
 
When a bike sits up, sometimes the gas tank develops rust inside and this can clog up the screen filter (attached to the petcock inside the tank).  You can clean the filter, but a rusty tank needs to be cleaned, etched, and re-silvered.  Even then, it might rust through later.  So, there's you somethin else to worry bout! Tongue
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #8 - 08/05/09 at 09:57:47
 
I do POR15 on rusty tanks ... but yes rust can clog the in tank filter enough to make it not flow at all ... look for tank rust ... I had a plenty and i got it POR15'ed.
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #9 - 08/05/09 at 10:09:38
 
I would replace all fuel & vacuum lines.  Replace brake hose.  Lube & adjust everything.  Adjust valves.  Back to carb:  There will be frozen screws.  Gunsmith's punches and lots of patience will help.  Get the correct Japanese standard drivers and vow to never let a driver slip, use antiseize in reassembly on carb bits.

If things are a mess in the carb, I'd probably just buy a new one.

Go through everything, though.  Might even scuff up the disk and clean the brake pads.  Everything is suspect!
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #10 - 08/05/09 at 10:43:26
 
You werent a mechanic when you bought it, but in 6 months, you will be. Its sat up & will require some massaging to get it rolling right. The brake fliud has had plenty of time to soak up water.
get some fresh oil in that thing quick. You can run the fuel line to a can & run the fuel out using prime position.
When you pull the tank, youll want someone there to help you hold it while you get the wires apart below it. Ill bet that connector will be tuff to get apart the first time. After you get it freed up, you will be able to do it alone.
There is a simple mod you can do to make getting to the spark plug easy. No tank removal. You can get a thin walled plug tool from Lowes in the lawn & garden area. You dont have one in the tool kit? Should be behind the chrome cover on the right side of the bike( as you sit on it). Look for dirt around the plug that can fall in when the plug comes out. Clean first if nasty.
The carb is simple. Takes some time, but you can do it. The screws are the hard part. Gotta have the right tools & a hand held impact, $5.00 at Harbor Freight, not air powered, really makes it better. The screws may Look like #2 Phillips, but are JIS. I still dont get it, but Digger can splain it to you.

REad in the Tech section, get some tools, you dont have to buy Snap on, just cheap tools will do fine,hit the pawn shops, etc. If your tools arent all from the same manufacturer, so what?
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #11 - 08/07/09 at 08:17:13
 
I'm back, with more questions as usual.  Bolded them again for those who want to skip my rambling.

First of all, I got it running!  I took the gas tank off, drained all the old fuel out, checked the petc0ck screen while I was there, changed the spark plug.  I went to Lowe's and Wal-Mart to look for a socket with no luck, so I just went to Sears and got one.  I don't really care about brands, but I have broken a few tools and their lifetime warranty's nice (although I'm pretty sure I lose more tools than I break).  The one from Sears fit fine.  The spark plug looked okay, a little dark, but not bad.

Speaking of, which spark plug should I use?  I accidentally bought an NGK DPR7EA-9 instead of the 8EA-9.  The manual says to use it "If the standard plug's insulator is dark."  Should I just keep the 7EA-9 or get an 8EA-9?  What's the difference?

I started to put the fuel tank back on, and found a little round thing on the ground where I had it.  It looked like it was metal with maybe some rubber on it.  It fit perfectly in the speedo cable on the end that hooks into the crankcase, so I put it there.  Was that where it was supposed to go?  I put the flat side down (the other side was kinda hollow/grooved).

Anyway, I put everything back together, and noticed a rubber tube coming out of the back side of the carburetor and coming up under the fuel tank that wasn't attached to anything.  I didn't see anywhere for it to go, so I just left it.  Is that normal?  What's it for?

With the fuel tank still empty, I poured a couple ounces of sea foam in the tank, put the fuel to RES, and jump started it (battery's still dead).  It started up right away, but then died after running, i dunno, maybe 30 secs.  So I went ahead and added another couple ounces of sea foam, put a couple gallons of gas in the tank, and put the fuel back to ON.  This time it wouldn't start at all.  At first I thought it maybe didn't have enough gas, but now my guess is either I somehow flooded it or the sea foam kept it from starting (i know cleaner-type stuff can make an engine run a little rough while it's doing its thing).

I experimented with different positions of the choke, tried starting it a few times, then let it rest a minute or two.  It seemed to like the middle choke position the best.  Finally I got to the point where it would putter for a few seconds, so I kept at it, and finally got it started.  It ran really low for a really long time; any time I would give it gas it would just die, so I just let it run.  Finally I gave it some gas and it revved, so I let it idle a bit, and it seems to run just fine now.

I rode it first thing to the nearest gas station and filled up the tires, cause they were low.  I had a bear of a time getting the air hose to fit on the back valve stem, but finally managed to squeeze it on.  I killed the engine when I got there cause I put the kickstand down when it was still in gear.  I'll have to get used to that.  I didn't feel like trying to push start it, so I jumped it again.

It's pretty zippy, especially since the only other kinda bike I've ridden is a Kawasaki 250 during the safety course.

So now it's running great.  The only issues I have now are the battery doesn't seem to want to stay charged and I think I need a new back tire cause it's dry rotted.  I've got the battery at Autozone now charging.  I'm not made out of money, and I really don't want to have to buy a new battery if I don't have to.  The sticker on this one's from May, so it should be okay.  Can/should I add distilled water or acid to the battery?  This one doesn't have a window to check the acid level, and it may be "maintenance free," but it looks like there's a plastic thing on top I could pop off to add acid if I need.

What can I expect to pay for a set of new tires (including mounting and balancing), and what kind of place should I go to?  I'm not sure if I should go to a dealer, a local motorcycle shop, or some kind of chain.  Only the back tire seems dry rotted, but I figure it would probably be a good idea to change the front one while I'm at it.  I may be cheap, but tires are one thing I don't mess around with.

Lastly (for now Smiley ), I'm not sure about oil.  I drained the existing oil first thing and put some Autozone brand 10W-40 in it, just to be safe.  I read on here that oils with "Energy star" additive will make the clutch slip.  It didn't say anything about that on the bottle, but it was just a temporary thing anyway.  I bought some Castrol synthetic 10W-40, but then saw on here that people recommend the Rotella T 15W-40 or 5W-40 synthetic, so I bought a gallon of the synthetic.  I want something that'll stand up better to this Texas heat.  I know I might not need to change the oil filter right now, but that's something else I don't mess around with.  Where's the best place to buy an oil filter?  How much do they cost?
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #12 - 08/07/09 at 08:51:00
 
Welcome aboard, Bryan.  Your a Savage mechanic now!  See how easy it is.  By the way, get a Clymers manual for your bike.  It really helps to know how to do maintenance and repairs.

Difference in the spark plugs is the temp they burn at.  The dark is probably because it's running richer, but can't tell from your description.  Definite replace your old plug with a new one.

If your speedo works, you got it right!  I think it only fits one way.

The black hose from the carb to the tank is the petcock vacuum hose.  It should attach to the petcock on a small nipple.  You won't be able to run the bike in the "On" position without it, since it opens the petcock.  It will run on PRI or RES without it.

Get a new battery.  They aren't cheap, but I messed with my savage's battery for months trying to keep it going.  Finally gave up and bought a new one.  With it sitting so long, yours is probably shot.

The oil filter you can get from the dealer.  Buy a couple since they will probably have to order them.

You made a good decision on this bike.  It's a tough little bike with good weight to power performance, great handling for all situations, and easy maintenance.  I've moved on to a bigger bike, but keep coming back to my Savage for the fun of riding it.  My SIL is riding it now and every time he does, he's got an ear-to-ear grin.
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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #13 - 08/07/09 at 09:09:32
 
Rubber tube sounds to me like a vent hose, if it's coming out the top rear of the carb.  There should be two, one on each side, and they should just lay under the seat along the frame rail.  Little round thing, sounds like you did the right thing.

I priced a battery at Battery King where I live.  It was about $45.  You add only distilled water to the battery for routine maintenance.  They put the acid in when you buy it.

I don't think you can buy tires locally except at a motorcycle shop.  If you have to have them mounted, shop for best price.  Front tire by itself = $75 - $100.  Rear tire by itself = $100 - $125.  Mounting $25+ each.  Consider doing it yourself.  It takes some muscle and sweat and cussing and pounding, but to me it's worth it.  You can order them online usually for less.  A compromise would be to take the tires/wheels off and take them to the shop; they should charge less than having to remove them from the bike and put them back on.

Oil should be only motorcycle oil.  I wouldn't use AutoZone brand or any other car oil.  Rotella (diesel engine) is the only brand I recall that works for us.  Oil filter is $5 or so at a dealer, $3 plus shipping from JCWhitney.

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Re: my first two-wheeled mechanical adventure...
Reply #14 - 08/07/09 at 09:13:17
 
Usually 7 instead of 8 means that you have gone to a 1 step hotter plug.
It does nothing for heat of anything. Nothing, all it does is, reach self cleaning ability at a lower temperature. That is it. If you're fouling plugs it will in rare ocassion let you keep running the bike while you're looking for the spot of trouble.

Rubber hose from back side of carb - it its on the top 1/2 and has one matching one on both sides and is pointing back to your chest if you were sitting on the bike ... then it is atmospheric vent. Hook a hose to it and point it back to near the back side of air box and leave it be.

Metal with rubber that fits on the cable - You got me ... never seen anything like it. These jap bikes come with a lot of extra parts ... yea ...

Battery - if it cooks itself dry in the bike etc etc hot weather etc, add distilled water. But if it falls over or leaks or spills I have added acid and used it. But that can make it sulphate easier.

Tires - I did kenda challengers and cost me 20 bucks to fit em. I got mail order from dennis kirk. Was like 55/65 or so but ... other places can be cheaper. They had it in stock with tubes and protective strips etc and was immediate ship and here in 2 days. I fit them at a bike shop that works on them not dealer.

Filter - dealer ... or bulk pack on fleabay.
Cool.
Srinath.
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