SuzukiSavage.com - Resurfacing the rocker arms

LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10661 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms Reply #15 - 07/09/09 at 15:39:46 According to Webcam, the hard surface cam lobes are at Rockwell #56-60 on the C-scale ... or C something like that...anyway, it was a C.
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PTRider

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Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms
Reply #16 - 07/09/09 at 19:08:20

furious70 wrote on 07/09/09 at 13:15:36:

the zinc problem is not a myth, a lot of muscle car guys are having trouble, especially with solid cams. I switched to valvoline's race only oil in my race car for that very reason. That's not an appropriate oil for a wet clutch AFAIK however.

Is it only on rebuilds with stiffer valve springs?

ZDDP or ZDP or ZDTP (the zinc phosphate compounds) are not the only solutions, just the cheapest one. Certain borate, antimony, and soluble molybdenum compounds do the job, especially when combined with ZDDP, but cost more.

I use a 20W-50 race oil labeled for motorcycles with wet clutches.

LANCER wrote on 07/09/09 at 15:39:46:

According to Webcam, the hard surface cam lobes are at Rockwell #56-60 on the C-scale ... or C something like that...anyway, it was a C.

56+ Rockwell C is good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms Reply #17 - 07/10/09 at 03:58:58 and soluble molybdenum Older Moto Guzzi's ( shaft drives)require this added to the rear drive. Owners buuy a container & it lasts forever. Of course, they dont change that oil every 3,000 miles, either. I wonder what amount would be good( if any) in the engine? Maybe its not okay with a wet clutch?
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Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms
Reply #18 - 07/10/09 at 06:14:06

Ok, this info from Lancer means that those with his hi lift cams (built up & reground by Webb) can use hard surface built up rocker arms with no annealing. Those of us with stock cams will likely need to flame anneal (drawn) our built up and reground tappets to a light blue temper.

Test for correct hardness would be you can just barely scratch it just a tiny tiny bit with your pocket knife's point, with about equal damage being done to your pocket knife tip.

===============

Justin, Moly disulfide is a clutch killer -- leave it on the splines of your shaft drive where it belongs. Only exception might be a tiny bit put on your cam journals to make sure they have some high pressure start up lube while the engine oil gallery fills up with oil on first start up.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms Reply #19 - 07/10/09 at 06:32:22 Okay, I wont do that. So far so good with the Rotella-T 15/40.
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furious70

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Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms
Reply #20 - 07/10/09 at 06:50:15

PTRider wrote on 07/09/09 at 19:08:20:

furious70 wrote on 07/09/09 at 13:15:36:

the zinc problem is not a myth, a lot of muscle car guys are having trouble, especially with solid cams. I switched to valvoline's race only oil in my race car for that very reason. That's not an appropriate oil for a wet clutch AFAIK however.

Is it only on rebuilds with stiffer valve springs?

ZDDP or ZDP or ZDTP (the zinc phosphate compounds) are not the only solutions, just the cheapest one. Certain borate, antimony, and soluble molybdenum compounds do the job, especially when combined with ZDDP, but cost more.

I use a 20W-50 race oil labeled for motorcycles with wet clutches.

LANCER wrote on 07/09/09 at 15:39:46:

According to Webcam, the hard surface cam lobes are at Rockwell #56-60 on the C-scale ... or C something like that...anyway, it was a C.

56+ Rockwell C is good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale

At first it was race engines with high lift solids and the accompanying higher seat pressures, yes, but I've been reading more stories on a couple mopar boards of guys with the newer, more aggressive lobed .904 tappet hydraulics being wiped out too. While bigger than OEM, the cams aren't 'big' really, nor are the spring setups for them.

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PTRider

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Re: Resurfacing the rocker arms
Reply #21 - 07/10/09 at 06:50:27

There are various forms of moly. Powdered MoS₂, molybdenum disulfide, does not belong in engine oil and certainly not in wet clutches. It can work very well in grease and gear oil. Other moly compounds work fine in engine oil and motorcycle clutches. Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate, MoTDC, which is liquid, soluble, and invisible in oil, is one such compound; there are others--Molybdenum d(2 Ethylhexyl phosphorodithiolate), Organomolybdenum complex of organic esters, and more.

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