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Visually Inspecting Valve Operation (Read 181 times)
SavageDanny
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Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
05/26/09 at 06:04:21
 
What is the best way to visually inspect/confirm that each valve is moving up and down as it should?

or...

Is it better to pull the head, remove the valves and inspect them that way?

I was thinking of just pulling the valve covers, removing the spark plug and then turning the engine over by hand. Then watch to see if each valve moves correctly. Is this an acceptable way to check valve operation?

It is a 1988 with no engine modifications and ~25000 miles on it. Was not treated well be some previous owners.
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marshall13
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #1 - 05/26/09 at 06:54:50
 
you should be able to do that through the valve adjustment "windows" on the headcover... a dial indicator with a magnetic base would probably allow an accurate measurement of valve lift the same way..
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #2 - 05/26/09 at 09:00:59
 
What is it that you're suspecting Danny?

Have you looked at your camchain lately.
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SavageDanny
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #3 - 05/26/09 at 09:30:54
 
She quit starting. Been checking everything I can think of but I suspect it is actually going to lead back to the igniter. I have already replaced a couple of fried electrical components. My fault, went to charge a cheap battery that was low on fluid, positive side of a charger slipped from my hand and hit frame, big sparks! Been nothing but trouble since. Have also replaced battery with a sealed one.

How does that relate to valves?

My step-father-in-law insists that it jumped time or the valves are not adjusted correctly or working. I told him no way that's true because I rebuilt the top half this last winter and triple checked everything as it went back together. Well I tore into it last night and everything looks fine. Cam chain and tensioner are good. Valve adjustment was spot on. Timing appears to be set correctly.

I just want to be able to confirm the valves are moving. I suspect they are fine and that I have torn back into the engine for nothing. I am trying to avoid removing the head again if at all possible.

I even took apart the starter and tested it and it is fine too.
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #4 - 05/26/09 at 10:06:50
 
Great, glad this didn't lead anywhere.

Bad news if it's the CDI.  Hope you can find one cheap.
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #5 - 05/26/09 at 10:10:29
 
SavageDanny wrote on 05/26/09 at 09:30:54:
She quit starting. Been checking everything I can think of but I suspect it is actually going to lead back to the igniter. I have already replaced a couple of fried electrical components. My fault, went to charge a cheap battery that was low on fluid, positive side of a charger slipped from my hand and hit frame, big sparks! Been nothing but trouble since. Have also replaced battery with a sealed one.

How does that relate to valves?

My step-father-in-law insists that it jumped time or the valves are not adjusted correctly or working. I told him no way that's true because I rebuilt the top half this last winter and triple checked everything as it went back together. Well I tore into it last night and everything looks fine. Cam chain and tensioner are good. Valve adjustment was spot on. Timing appears to be set correctly.

I just want to be able to confirm the valves are moving. I suspect they are fine and that I have torn back into the engine for nothing. I am trying to avoid removing the head again if at all possible.

I even took apart the starter and tested it and it is fine too.

here's an old school valve timing test... it requires one to procure a very high tech diagnostic tool, a paper matchbook... one opens the book, and holds the cover over the end of the tailpipe while cranking, just angling the end away from the pipe... if the cover just flaps away from the pipe, then returns to its starting position, the valve timing is at least close... if it sucks back toward the outlet of the pipe, it shows a vacuum is forming in the exhaust, which is a sure indication of a slipped, skipped, or other wise malfunctioning valve timing set-up... a folded business card works well for non smokers...lol
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SavageDanny
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #6 - 05/26/09 at 10:28:44
 
Doesn't the old school test require the ability to start the engine?

I think I will try my idea of just turning the engine over by hand and watch the valves closely to see if they are all moving. If they are I will put it all back together and start shopping for a new CDI.

I was sure that's what is was anyway. My wife and her step dad convinced me to try looking at the timing and the valves so I did. As I expected I have not found anything mechanically wrong.
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #7 - 05/26/09 at 11:29:05
 
SavageDanny wrote on 05/26/09 at 10:28:44:
Doesn't the old school test require the ability to start the engine?

I think I will try my idea of just turning the engine over by hand and watch the valves closely to see if they are all moving. If they are I will put it all back together and start shopping for a new CDI.

I was sure that's what is was anyway. My wife and her step dad convinced me to try looking at the timing and the valves so I did. As I expected I have not found anything mechanically wrong.

engine just has to crank, doesnt have to start... actually more accurate on crank, as some engines get an exhaust "vac eye" momentarily while running(a pop back twice a minute or so)... the light show and replacement of other parts shows you pretty much knew the problem... but, peace in the family is worth an extra hour of work...
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SavageDanny
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #8 - 05/26/09 at 11:36:51
 
marshall13 wrote on 05/26/09 at 11:29:05:
peace in the family is worth an extra hour of work...


Yes it is. Especially when step-father-in-law gave this bike to me for free.
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #9 - 05/26/09 at 11:39:53
 
SavageDanny wrote on 05/26/09 at 11:36:51:
marshall13 wrote on 05/26/09 at 11:29:05:
peace in the family is worth an extra hour of work...


Yes it is. Especially when step-father-in-law gave this bike to me for free.

3 hours then...lol  did you check for spark while you had the plug out?
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SavageDanny
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #10 - 05/26/09 at 11:54:08
 
Checked for spark. It was week. Checked Ignition coil. Only 1 Ohms between connections when it should have been 4-7 Ohms. Replaced it. Tested starter relay. It failed too. Replaced it. Going to do some continuity checks on some of the wiring tonight as well as my valve test. I really think it's the CDI. Seems a little strange to me that one light show fried so much. I can understand frying the CDI but the other stuff? Oh well, it has been a learning experience. Wish I knew someone  in KC with a Savage. We could swap CDI's for a minute to see if it would start. Then I could be 100% certain of the problem before laying out a bunch of money for a new one.
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #11 - 05/26/09 at 13:52:50
 
SavageDanny wrote on 05/26/09 at 11:54:08:
Checked for spark. It was week. Checked Ignition coil. Only 1 Ohms between connections when it should have been 4-7 Ohms. Replaced it. Tested starter relay. It failed too. Replaced it. Going to do some continuity checks on some of the wiring tonight as well as my valve test. I really think it's the CDI. Seems a little strange to me that one light show fried so much. I can understand frying the CDI but the other stuff? Oh well, it has been a learning experience. Wish I knew someone  in KC with a Savage. We could swap CDI's for a minute to see if it would start. Then I could be 100% certain of the problem before laying out a bunch of money for a new one.

21 year old bike, bro, your "light show" might have just been the finale... it seems to have fried all the coil assemblies... maybe the crank pick-up? that's a coil too....
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #12 - 05/26/09 at 14:09:39
 
Before I bought an ignition box, I think I'd see if a local dealership had any way to test the one I already had. Make sure your battery is charged, as a weak battery can cause a weak spark. You can always use a set of jumper cables (carefully, to avoid spitzensparken) and the battery from your car, truck, or trolling motor.
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SavageDanny
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #13 - 05/26/09 at 19:32:03
 
marshall13 wrote on 05/26/09 at 13:52:50:
SavageDanny wrote on 05/26/09 at 11:54:08:
Checked for spark. It was week. Checked Ignition coil. Only 1 Ohms between connections when it should have been 4-7 Ohms. Replaced it. Tested starter relay. It failed too. Replaced it. Going to do some continuity checks on some of the wiring tonight as well as my valve test. I really think it's the CDI. Seems a little strange to me that one light show fried so much. I can understand frying the CDI but the other stuff? Oh well, it has been a learning experience. Wish I knew someone  in KC with a Savage. We could swap CDI's for a minute to see if it would start. Then I could be 100% certain of the problem before laying out a bunch of money for a new one.

21 year old bike, bro, your "light show" might have just been the finale... it seems to have fried all the coil assemblies... maybe the crank pick-up? that's a coil too....


Pick up tested within specifications. Did my valve test earlier this evening too. Everything moved liked it should. Many continuity tests on wiring found no failures either.
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Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation
Reply #14 - 05/26/09 at 19:38:18
 
Charon wrote on 05/26/09 at 14:09:39:
Before I bought an ignition box, I think I'd see if a local dealership had any way to test the one I already had. Make sure your battery is charged, as a weak battery can cause a weak spark. You can always use a set of jumper cables (carefully, to avoid spitzensparken) and the battery from your car, truck, or trolling motor.


All Suzuki dealers in area told me they didn't have the gear to test it. All they could do was the swap test but would have to order the part. One dealer even called my bike a dinosaur. I reminded him they still sold it only with a new name.

Battery is charged. Are you saying use jumpers in addition to the charged battery? A sparky event was what caused my troubles. I have extreme reservations about using jumpers.
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