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Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consistently? (Read 470 times)
Southpaw
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Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consistently?
01/17/09 at 11:25:54
 
 I was talking to the parts dept / sevice tech at the local Suzukl dealership (who is a former Savage owner, and one of the more practical and approachable guys I've found) and mentioned wanting to ride out of state to do some longer runs, and some of the mods I found on this site to accommodate the attempts. (Might still put a front fork brace on before spring) The one thing he cautioned me about was driving more than 45 minutes to an hour in the 70 to 80+ MHP range in summer. He said he really didn't think the bike was designed for it, due to the air cooled engine and the way the powerband etc. was designed. He said it wasn't that it couldn't be done on occasion, but he thought that making a habit of it would considerably shorten the life of the motor considering the heat the prolonged higher RPM would create versus the amount the fins could dissapate at the same speed. I don't think he was trying to sell me something higher end as much as trying to look out for me and asking me if I'd considered all the pros and cons of pushing the bikes limits and breaking down far from home.
 I know I've read a lot of you talk about running highway speeds so I know it can be done, but what are your opinions on what he's saying. I'm certainly not a high tech person, but I'm not a total rookie either. Obviously keeping the oil changed, using the right oil for conditions  and doing all the other maintenance is crucial to this equation. Is a chain conversion a necessity to this use? (obvious change in toque/rpm ratios) What else separates the county road - 60 MPH bike from those that run the slabs consistently?
 I've probably pushed every piece of equipment I've ever owned past its intended use on accasion when need or opportunity arose (From pickup truck to weed wacker, I think its just in our nature) and I'll probably still make at least ONE big run this year just to say I did it...but am I setting myself up for problems down the road? We have a lot of experienced riders on this site, and I respect your opinions. It wouldn't surprise me to have some disagreement on this. It's the first time I've heard this concern voiced, and I'm curious about your thoughts.

From my point of view asking this question is just a case of, as Dirty Harry used to say, " A man's got to know his limitations..."    Huh
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #1 - 01/17/09 at 12:48:34
 
I think if I was gonna run it that hard I would put an oil cooler on it. That way there is more oil in it to take the beating & the oil stays cooler & helps keep the engine cooler.
A temperature gauge for the oil returning from the cooler maybe?
Slow down once in a while? ( Perish the thought!)
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #2 - 01/17/09 at 12:52:46
 
I've put about 13,000 miles on my '06 with about 50-50 freeway/city commuting. On the freeway it's between 65 and 75. I've got a lrger rear tire which has put the 'sweet spot' as far as vibration etc right on 70 mph. "Suzi" cruizes just like she's made for it. Paladin on the sight here has run from southern California to Oklahoma (I think it was) and back. Being air cooled is really not a factor so long as it gets air. I would worry about vibration and wind before I would the bike. Just my two cents worth.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #3 - 01/17/09 at 13:43:57
 
I make freeway run daily and in the summer it will hit 110°F

If you get off the freeway after running all the way at 70mph, the heat comming off of the cylinder is pretty much normal.  But if you get stopped by a long light, you'll feel the heat increase to the point that you can't bear to put your legs on the pegs anymore.  So my advice would be to keep moving until it cools down some.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #4 - 01/17/09 at 13:50:29
 
Heat in an engine can lead to oil failures.  

Cheapest insurance against oil failures is to use a synthetic oil that isn't threatened by the engine heats our bikes can reach.

Too many of us run interstates at 80mph to say it can't be done.
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Southpaw
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #5 - 01/17/09 at 14:15:34
 
It was an unusual statement from a usually reliable source. Since I don't "usually" ride that fast for that long, the thought had never occurred to me. On one side, the argument made sense, but on the other, I was sure there were quite a few riders from this site that freeway commute. I just didn't recall how fast for how long. Also gotta factor in that just because some people do something doesn't make it the right choice, otherwise we wouldn't all be cringing at the number of cagers with cell phones glued to their ear! Hence the caveat about respecting the tech contributors on this site. The mechanic might know the dealership's line on this, but the guys on this site live and breathe the Savage specifically. That carries a little more weight with me!
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #6 - 01/17/09 at 14:46:30
 
With all the posts cropping up recently, including this one about whether the Savage 650 engine can sustain highway speeds over an extended period of time and distance,,, ie. highway/interstate travel....

 Why not contact Suzuki directly and ask them what the capabilities and extreme operating range of this engine is ????
 
 I mean, after all, they have been building the 650 for the Savage for over 20 years, they obviously have done extensive Research and Development on this motor. One would think they put these bikes through some pretty harsh tests, and would know.
  Its a testement that several members on this Forum and countless other Savage owners around the world have probably run these bikes hard, so it can be done.

 Maybe an email would get a response to satisfy our curiousity on this subject.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #7 - 01/17/09 at 15:05:00
 
I've wondered the same thing. Some motors are built for higher RPM's, but I don't think the Savage motor is built for those 13,000 RPM redlines... I think of the Savage motor along the same lines as a car. Maybe a 7,000 RPM redline... I don't know the specifics, I just know that for me, cruising at 70 MPH is a little sketchy. On a straightaway, I might hit 80, but I'm quickly bringing it back down to 65 or 70. I've taken hour long cruises at 65-70, but I don't like it, and I don't think my Savage does either...

Adam
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #8 - 01/17/09 at 15:28:32
 
I dont think it has the ability to redline on level ground. Maybe one of these guys who have ported & polished the head, tuned exhaust & jetted it Juuust so could make it hurt itself by over revving, but I dont think mine would.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #9 - 01/17/09 at 15:51:59
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 01/17/09 at 15:28:32:
I dont think it has the ability to redline on level ground. Maybe one of these guys who have ported & polished the head, tuned exhaust & jetted it Juuust so could make it hurt itself by over revving, but I dont think mine would.


Fastest I could get mine up to in 5th was about 85.  Not sure what the rpm's are, but the aerodynamics definitely keep it from redlining.  I put a chain mod on with a smaller rear gear.  I run the freeway around 3500 rpms.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #10 - 01/17/09 at 17:08:35
 
A stock engine on level ground in 5th gear will not go near the  6500 rpm redline, and barely approaches it in 4th,  but throw in a performance cam and carb and a really good flowing exhaust and it does become possible.

I have over-reved mine before; in the 7500+ rpm range.  Keep in mind that I saw the needle go there on an inexpensive model tach, and I assume that the tach was probably lagging slightly so that it may be that the engine got close to 8000rpm.  The engine sound at that level is rather frightening and does cause the heart to pause in beating as you wait to hear if the engine will continue to make normal running sounds afterward.
At the time this happened eveything seemed to be working normally afterward; idle was still smooth and normal, power was still there, sound was good, continued to run normally thereafter.  However, I did finally find one thing was not quite normal.  When the engine was taken apart after a few years I found that the lobe surface on the camshaft had some slight indentations.  They were not gouges in the metal, but the indent area was as if the metal had been compressed down.  The surface of the hard weld done on the performance camshafts from Webcam held up under the extreme pressure from the rockers but the stock metal beneath the hard weld surface was compressed slightly.   I sent the cam back to Webcam and they redid it for me for a nominal fee..
Anyway, point is that extremely high rpm will do some damage (oh, the end of the rockers that contact the cam lobes were worn a bit as well...but not extreme) to the top end but the rest of the engine is still fine.  There is no evidense of any damage to cylinder, piston, rod or crank & bearings.  The engine is pretty darn tough.  It is best to keep it down to the 6500 redline of course which keeps things well inside the safety zone.  Besides, an engine with a stock cam will have the power drop off going over 5000 rpm and go flat after 6000.

I never had any overheating problems at highway speeds; cruising in the 70-80 mph range for hundreds of miles during the summer.  Like others have mentioned the heat does become more noticeable when just sitting in traffic.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #11 - 01/17/09 at 18:20:34
 
Redline is 6500 rpm, 5300 rpm on a stock bike is 81 mph.  Not straining the engine at all.  Drop to 5000 rpms and you are cruising at 77 mph which is passing most interstate traffic.  70 is about right, and is only 4580 rpm.

I rode L.A. to OKC in 2.5 days, I-40, kept up with traffic, warm enough that I was mostly riding in a t-shirt, thank you SPF-45.  That was a year and a half ago, if I hurt the bike it hasn't manifested yet.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #12 - 01/18/09 at 03:20:49
 
LANCER wrote on 01/17/09 at 17:08:35:
I have over-reved mine before; in the 7500+ rpm range.  Keep in mind that I saw the needle go there on an inexpensive model tach, and I assume that the tach was probably lagging slightly so that it may be that the engine got close to 8000rpm.


? Limiter cuts the spark at slightly above 6500. Is it possible your tach reads a bit hot?
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #13 - 01/18/09 at 04:01:38
 
Are you sure there is a limiter? I am not, at least on older models. Anyhow, LS is a 650, not a moped! Of course it can sustain 75mph, if guy holding the bars can sustain 75. Shop wants to sell you bigger, more expensive bike, that's normal, considering current trends of 1.5 and 1.6 liter engine on motorcycles. 20 yrs ago you couldn't find a bike with more than 1.2 liter, and good old Savage was there, right in the middle of the pack with 650, being sold as quite cool for anything, let alone freeway commuting. Now it's considered small. Funny world.
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Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten
Reply #14 - 01/18/09 at 04:22:34
 
SV og LS wrote on 01/18/09 at 03:20:49:
LANCER wrote on 01/17/09 at 17:08:35:
I have over-reved mine before; in the 7500+ rpm range.  Keep in mind that I saw the needle go there on an inexpensive model tach, and I assume that the tach was probably lagging slightly so that it may be that the engine got close to 8000rpm.


? Limiter cuts the spark at slightly above 6500. Is it possible your tach reads a bit hot?


If there is actually a limiter installed then the one on mine is inoperative.
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