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Production run time for the Savage (Read 222 times)
markrider
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Production run time for the Savage
11/28/08 at 06:06:31
 
I was looking through a recent motorcycle buyers guide and I realized that the Suzuki Savage/S40  probably has the longest unchanged (don't see the 4 to 5 speed trans as that much of a change) production run of all the motorcycle models currently available for sale here in the U.S. with the exception of H-D bikes.  Why is this so?  Don't get me wrong I'm glad it's still being made.  

If one reads Cycleworld Magazine, it seems like the Japanese Motorcycle Companies always promote the newest and fastest-yet the old  tried and true LS650 goes on and on.  Is Suzuki making much of a profit on this bike?-I don't think so.  

Why is Suzuki the only Japanese motorcycle company sticking with this tried and true, simple (some would say retro) design?  
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #1 - 11/28/08 at 07:18:35
 
Pragmatically, the Savage was designed in the '60-70s with commonly available '60s sheet metal and investment casting technology to price/performance compete at the lower end of the motorcycle market.  

It originally sold dirt cheap and competed with 250-350 Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki twins for that "beginners" market slot.  It was designed to be easier/cheaper to build than a 250-350 twin yet giving equivalent performance.  The relatively huge displacement was cheap to do and it was necessary to make up the performance difference.  There are no bells and whistles on the bike, it was 1960's minimal tech all the way (but still meeting all legal requirements for safety and lights, etc).

Now, in 2009 Suzuki sees a bike that has all its tooling paid for 5x over and they don't need to mess with it at all since (aside from the tranny upgrade model change and the cam chain tensioner system that got a lick and a promise just a few years ago) everything works good and is fairly durable.  As long as Suzuki can lean out the carburetor to meet EPA requirements, they will keep building a single limited production run at the start of the year and selling it out at a slight premium that goes into their dealer's pockets.  

(when fuel injection becomes necessary the ongoing saga of the Savage may undergo a serious review as you are dealing with Suzuki/Kawasaki as a merged entity now and there are pressures to integrate the combined offerings to cut out internally competing replications)

The Savage sells out each year because when a buyer looks at it he sees solid metal and visually appealing lines.  Visually, the buyer sees Harley solid metal style '60s technology and he likes it.  The buyer then looks at other bikes in the price range, sees a lot of plastic and fold metal kickstands and such and he then picks the Savage (and it sells out early every spring).

It sells out early each spring at a premium price (extra markup dollars going into the dealer's pocket - they like that).  It has a cult following of sorts.  It requires no redesign and is now competing in both low and mid-range market slots.  Why would you kill it?

Why indeed?  There are some reasons ...

For example, Kawasaki has a 650 single dirt bike with a better motor, but it doesn't look as good as the Savage.  The retro look sells -- so as long as the slot gets filled with something that sells out each spring.

What is sad is there are several alternatives to the market slot that could be built out of existing 450cc to 650cc dirt bike models in both the Suzuki and Kawasaki lines that could share a production line for cost effectiveness.  

Sure, the old Savage production line is paid for, but cost of say "moving it to another facility" could prompt a model review.   Costs of meeting some new EPA goal that pushes leaning out the carburetor past the Savage's admittedly broad reliability limits could also play in causing a model review.

What threatens the Savage most is China.  Savages sell at a fairly high price compared to current Chinese 250cc bikes, but the Chinese bikes don't perform all that well (they are aimed at excellent gas mileage).

You let the Chinese screw up and photo-copy a high output 90 degree SV650 motor and put it in a low seat height frame to suit the oriental leg length and suddenly the Savage has some competition it can't overcome at a similar price point.

Count your blessings that China does not believe in performance per se, but only believes in excellent gas mileage as defining the motorcycle.  When that mind set changes the motorcycle world will see serious competition for the low end of the market way beyond what it sees today.

http://www.megapowersports.com/motorcycle.html

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« Last Edit: 11/28/08 at 08:49:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #2 - 11/28/08 at 07:22:25
 
Suzuki intruduced it as a 4 speed and then discontinued it for a few years. It was then re-intruduced with the 5 speed, and continues to this day. They just discontinued the VS1400/S-83 (which my husband has) for 2009. That had been about the longest uninterrupted production of any street bike they make.

I'd say Suzuki still makes a pretty decent profit on the LS650. The production costs and tooling have long since been paid for, and there are no marketing costs to speak of. They'll keep making it as a sort of beginner's bike for as long as they can make a profit and as long as they can easily make it meet pollution/noise standards.

It is a tried and true design and has obviously got a cult following among experienced riders as well. I'm glad there's still room in the lineup for a nice and simple thumper that rides and performs well enough to keep a rider interested long after they have learned on it. And it sure is nice to have a bike that perfectly fits height-challenged people like me!!!
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #3 - 11/28/08 at 07:34:37
 
Chong Kim wrote on 11/28/08 at 07:22:25:
Suzuki intruduced it as a 4 speed and then discontinued it for a few years. It was then re-intruduced with the 5 speed, and continues to this day. They just discontinued the VS1400/S-83 (which my husband has) for 2009. That had been about the longest uninterrupted production of any street bike they make.



Savage was never discontinued so it has longer production run than the large VS which arrived in 1987. Smaller Intruder was introduced as a 700/750 in 1985 so it can be said to be older than Savage.

Chong Kim wrote on 11/28/08 at 07:22:25:
They'll keep making it as a sort of beginner's bike for as long as they can make a profit and as long as they can easily make it meet pollution/noise standards.



They couldn't make it meet Euro specs a few years ago.. it's highly possible that when next set of tighter emission regulations arrive for you in U.S., Savage will be gone.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #4 - 11/28/08 at 08:21:48
 
I always wondered why Honda only made the Rebel 450 for a few years back a couple of decades ago.

I have no experience at all with that bike, but those who have ridden it say the performance is about the same as our 650s, with better fuel mileage.

Not being an engineer at all, I wonder if a 450 to 500 twin would give us about the same performance, be smoother, and increase fuel mileage a bit.

My only real complaint with my S40 is the rather short range with the small gas tank and around 55 mpg mileage.  I wish we had a dependable 150+ mile range before going on reserve.

I almost bought a Rebel 250, but the lack of performance killed that idea for me.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #5 - 11/28/08 at 08:40:02
 
<Not being an engineer at all, I wonder if a 450 to 500 twin would give us about the same performance, be smoother, and increase fuel mileage a bit.>

====================

Jerry, read the thread on the 500 Vulcan that is over here for a re-hash of these same discussion points.  Yes, (more hp w/ less torque) yes and yes.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1227498673/15
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #6 - 11/28/08 at 09:11:32
 
Oldfeller -

I read that thread.  Does anyone know much about the S50 Suzuki?

With the shaft drive, it initally would appeal to me over the Kawa with its chain.

The S50 has a nice, big gas tank too?  Isn't its frame and handling about the same as our S40s?
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #7 - 11/28/08 at 09:24:20
 
Not me, but several of us have bought that model as a cruiser trade-up then had things to say about it not being nimble and flickable like the Savage was (surprise surprise).  Parking lot handling gets neg comments vis a vis the Savage.  It apparently does cruise the long trips better though.

Get a heavier, higher capacity long trip cruiser and plan to lose some in town easy flickable riding.  

Them weight/handling trade-offs happen.  I tried to beat the trade offs with a shaft drive XV535 Yamaha for my cruiser and I was mostly successful at that particular trick as it is only 50 lbs heavier than a Savage with only mildly more awkward parking lot habits.  

It still cruises better than the Savage and that's all I ever asked it to do.  Maintenance is 2-3 times more complex as it has two carbs that require balancing, twice as much valve adustment, etc.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #8 - 11/28/08 at 09:27:14
 
Not me, but several of us have bought that model as a cruiser trade-up then had things to say about it not being nimble and flickable like the Savage was (surprise surprise).  Parking lot handling gets neg comments vis a vis the Savage.  It apparently does cruise the long trips better though.

Get a heavier, higher capacity long trip cruiser and plan to lose some in town easy flickable riding.  

Them weight/handling trade-offs happen.  I tried to beat the trade offs with a shaft drive XV535 Yamaha for my cruiser and I was mostly successful at that particular trick as it is only 50 lbs heavier than a Savage with only mildly more awkward parking lot habits.  

It still cruises better than the Savage and that's all I ever asked it to do.  Maintenance is 2-3 times more complex as it has two carbs that require balancing, twice as much valve adustment, etc.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #9 - 11/28/08 at 09:30:12
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 11/28/08 at 09:11:32:
Oldfeller -

I read that thread.  Does anyone know much about the S50 Suzuki?

With the shaft drive, it initally would appeal to me over the Kawa with its chain.
The S50 has a nice, big gas tank too?  Isn't its frame and handling about the same as our S40s?


Rock solid bulletproof machine,...good power, styling a bit too jap-choppery for me.
Only a 3.2 gallon tank, with 5 - 10 mpg less than the Savage.  Also, over-complicated,...water-cooled, two carbs, two air filters(hard to reach, and expensive to replace).  Top heavy, and falls into turns.  Cramped for larger riders.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #10 - 11/28/08 at 11:58:44
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 11/28/08 at 08:21:48:
... My only real complaint with my S40 is the rather short range with the small gas tank and around 55 mpg mileage.  I wish we had a dependable 150+ mile range before going on reserve....

I ran from Parker AZ to North Palm Springs CA, 153 miles, 70 mpg, hit reserve just a couple of miles before the end.  Kept speed to about 50-55 mph.

Still looking to enlarging my $.99 gas tank by making it 2.5" taller.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #11 - 11/28/08 at 12:16:34
 
markrider wrote on 11/28/08 at 06:06:31:
I...Why is Suzuki the only Japanese motorcycle company sticking with this tried and true, simple (some would say retro) design?  

AFAICT the Honda 250 Nighthawk has been with us since 1991, not available in an '09 model.  The 250 Rebel came out in '84, is still available, was unavailable for some years in the US but was probably being sold elsewhere (same as the Savage.)

No design costs associated with continuing a model, so all you need to cover is manufacturing costs.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #12 - 11/28/08 at 14:33:10
 
Quote:
My only real complaint with my S40 is the rather short range with the small gas tank and around 55 mpg mileage.  I wish we had a dependable 150+ mile range before going on reserve.



Jerry,
I have bought a kawasaki vn 750 tank to fit on the savage, It is 3 1/2 gallons. Not alot more but with the dial a jet added to my carb and a chain conversion I think I can easily get 60 plus miles a gallon. That puts me at 180 plus before I hit reserve. The dimensions of the tank are very similar to the stock tank but one added plus, they come with a fuel gauge! Yeah, I'll have a fuel gauge on a savage. And no instrument panel on the tank. I like it!
Seviersavage

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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #13 - 11/28/08 at 14:35:53
 
Seviersavage -

Thanks for the ideas, but I have NO skill to mount a different tank, or do the chain conversion.

So, I'll live with the stock bike.
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Re: Production run time for the Savage
Reply #14 - 11/29/08 at 18:36:03
 
About a year ago my son expressed the desire to start riding a motorcycle, and so the search began for a somewhat cool beginner's bike.
When we started looking around, the Savage/s-40's was the only bike that genuinely matched the styling and features of my Sportster 1200 custom, but weighed half as much while posessing 650cc's. Belt drive, step seat, bobbed fender, fat 15 rear, slender 19 front..... Heck, this model even does my sportster one better by putting the speedo on the tank!
I picked up an 87 copy for $700 last week and this thing is a blast, even if it does seem a little small to me.
To me, it is the one metric cruiser that any newbie should be able to get on and ride in a group of Harleys and blend in perfectly. It is the motorcycle that Harley should have been building all along for customer development purposes, but has chosen not to.
I've got a little fixing up to do, but I think my investment won't return too badly if/when my son wants a bigger bike!
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