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car tire on the 07 s-40 (Read 313 times)
socal40
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car tire on the 07 s-40
10/08/08 at 20:23:22
 
Hi everyboidy, I'm not real happy with my m/c tire. I'm on my 2nd tire since new and i'm getting aprox 6000 miles on them before dead! At $100 bones each its not worth the $$. I've done the search and found a thread about it but it doesn't say what brand tire to get. Can anybody help me with the brand and exact size to get?  Undecided
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #1 - 10/08/08 at 20:32:58
 
removed for your own safety most likely.

the last guy to try it nearly killed himself.

overpressurized the tire and it blew up shredding a nice set of bags.

could've been him.

why not go metzlers?

I get dunlop D404's and I get 10k out of them.  $100 installed balanced and tubed.
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #2 - 10/09/08 at 04:33:17
 
socal40 wrote on 10/08/08 at 20:23:22:
Hi everyboidy, I'm not real happy with my m/c tire. I'm on my 2nd tire since new and i'm getting aprox 6000 miles on them before dead! ...

You're "on your 2nd" so you've only worn out the stock IRC.  Most cruiser tires do a bit better.

Motorcycle tires are different than car tires.  Car tires are designed to remain upright.  Motorcycle tires lean.  When you are cornering the motorcycle tire retains full traction, a car tire tips on edge and loses traction.  Motorcycle tires are SOFT -- like car racing tires.  Short life, but fantastic grip.  IF you go to the darkside you will get considerably better mileage out of your tire, at the cost of reduced traction.  I don't know how far you could push a car tire in a curve versus the bike tire -- you can only find out by exceeding the limits of traction and low siding.  I rather remain rubber side down.

IF I were to have gone to the dark side I would have gone with a 145R15 on the rear and a 3.25-19 on the front.   But I prefer dirt/gravel on the ground rather than ground into my skin, so I went with a full set of Metzelers on my bike.  
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #3 - 10/09/08 at 07:06:32
 
I will give my impressions as a European... Cool

My last Guzzi's rear tire lasted close to 40K Km... 25K miles... but was so worn it was "square", it looked like a car tire and cornered like sh!t

Really, it was a dangerous ride...

The issue with MC tires is that the compound is quite soft compared to car tires. Paladin's right. But the traction is what keeps you alive.

If you have an issue with your tire wearing out too quickly, consider you might be "thrashing" it, i.e. you are much too throttle-happy.
Slow down. Don't accellerate WOT, do it more gradually.
SAVE GAS !!!
I fit an AVON VENOM 140/90 and commute at a leisurely 50-55mph... 70+mpg... Cool and after two years the tread's still all there.

If you really want a hard compound tire, consider a dual-purpose rear, like they fit on road-going enduros:
Kawasaki Versys, Honda Transalp, Suzuki Freewind etc.
They have a much harder compound... it'll last longer...

Smiley
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #4 - 10/09/08 at 17:00:42
 
6000 miles is good for anything less than a touring tire, I only got 4000 out of the Battle Axes on a Z-1000..  Roll Eyes
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #5 - 10/10/08 at 22:05:01
 
I've been out of the loop here for a bit, but now I'm back.

I think I'm probably the latest on here to go to the dark side with a car tire on the back of my 650. I've got to say that it's got a grip on the road that's every bit as good or better than my previous two Dunlop 404's. I don't take many risks and am sure not a peg dragger, but I feel like I could with this tire back there. I also noticed that when I lock the rear brake it doesn't seem to be as prone to wanting to come around and talk to the front as the 404 did in a panic stop situation involving a turn signal and brake light disadvantaged NC car last year.

And, I just got to ride for a couple hours through a Noah like downpour in a hefty wind and felt as solid as a rock the whole time. By the way, you do want decent rain gear.

My tire is a B. F. Goodrich 145 TA radial as suggested by an "oldfeller" on here. I think they're out of production at BFG but there's a place who owns the molds and still makes them if you're interest.

If you use a new tube, take plenty of time, use lots of soapy water and common sense you shouldn't have any trouble doing the job. My Dunlops got about 8k miles each, but I didn't run them bald. It just didn't seem like the thing to do, what with the cost of a lifetime in traction and all. I'm in hopes of getting 30k or better out of this puppy.

Jack
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #6 - 10/10/08 at 23:47:14
 
Metzeler  ME 880 Marathon kick butt ,  I got a set of rears off Ebay for 60 bucks.
LOVE UM
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Are we gona ride? or just dic around all day?
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #7 - 10/11/08 at 05:19:32
 
Socal40,  putting a car tire on a bike rim isn't for a beginner -- getting the bead to slip around and over the rim takes time and patience and several repeated on/off the rim tries with pressures not going over 90 psi.

The rewards of mounting the car tire are greater grip and multiple bike tire lives worth of NO MAINTENANCE riding.  Seriously, other than keeping air in it you won't have to mess with the back of your bike for like 5 years.

No body is interested in pushing the idea any more because of one fellow who got his bead stuck due to insufficent lube and very low air pressure.  He left it stuck on sideways over night then mounted the tire on his bike and rode it to some sort of truckstop where they had 125-175 psi air pressure available to end users -- and he then proceeded to stick air in it without breaking the bead free and relubing everything -- and eventually the extreme air pressure levels just plain flat exploded his tire (right up in his face) when the pressure got high enough.

(I find the long series of absolutely dumb things that he did to be absolutely totally amazing, btw)

In describing what he did, he mentioned he had sprayed the inside of his rim with truck bed liner and "some had gotten involved with the rim".  So, not only did he leave his bead stuck sideways overnight he let the glue he had sprayed on the rim area set up on the rubber overnight as well.

So, now car tires get rated by all concerned as too dangerous to recommend any more.   Personally, my estimation of the level of mechanical and common sense understanding of the general run of new list members has gone so low that I simply can't talk about anything remotely challenging because I can't trust folks not to be screwing up their bikes or hurting themselves.  This was not true in years past -- this list used to be mostly populated by strong technically skilled mechanical types who loved to experiment on their bikes.  Hell, we even discussed and spec'd a new cam chain design that we had built in Japan.

Well, that was then and this is now  ....

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« Last Edit: 10/11/08 at 09:55:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #8 - 10/11/08 at 07:03:58
 
Car tires are NOT rated "dangerous" because some idiot made one explode.



An automotive tire, while vertical, has far greater contact with the road than an equal sized motorcycle tire.  With this greater contact you get far greater traction and far less wear.  IF you are driving a hack or a trike or IF you are touring/commuting where the vast majority of your riding is vertical THEN an automotive tire will give you better tire mileage and, yeah, better grip as long as you remain vertical.

Motorcycles lean.

When you lean a car tire that big flat contact patch become a tiny corner.  When you lean a motorcycle tire the contact patch remains the same.  The above picture shows a 25 degree lean.  That is not much lean for most riders.  Once you lean the car tire has far less grip than a motorcycle tire.  If you ride conservatively, this is not a problem.

No one here is saying that car tires are dangerous.  What is being said is that they are not as good as motorcycles when you start riding a bit frisky thru the corners or in the twisties.

I commute on Los Angeles city streets and tend to get frisky at times -- actually what I am doing is staying in my lane while turning at a speed that hopefully keeps ahead of the cages.  I've also taken a few runs on the Twisties -- Angles Crest and Ortega highways.  While I doubt I could keep up with even a halfway decent sportbike/rider the times I was out on the twisties no one passed me.  Cool

There is a reason the vast majority of motorcyclists do not run car tires.  If that reason does not apply to you then car tires are a good choice.
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #9 - 10/11/08 at 07:07:00
 
If anyone wishes to claim that their automotive tires are as good in the twisties as motorcycle tires I am quite willing to meet them halfway for a run through the twisties.
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #10 - 10/11/08 at 09:44:31
 
Car tires have flexible sidewalls (they use the bottom of the tire more than you would think during a turn) and they make a cornering contact patch that is wider and longer than the equivalent contact patch on a bike tire (with both tires being "properly inflated" for their type of course).

Conversely, the rubber compound on a car tire is harder and more durable than a bike tire.  It doesn't grip as well measured per square inch.  It is a good thing more square inches are in play on the car tire.

Net effect is cornering grip on both tire types is quite satisfactory (for a low hp bike like a Savage, anyway).

As far as performance in the twisties go, go argue your point with Toymaker who lives in the twisties all the time (45 miles each way, every weekday rain or shine).  He might actually agree with you, since he's waiting on a metzler 880 to show up for the back of his bike.

Here is my dog's opinion of the whole thing ....



and here is my bike's opinion (for whatever that matters to you)



Me, I'm going to watch TV ....





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« Last Edit: 10/11/08 at 13:57:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #11 - 10/11/08 at 19:13:12
 
No, they don't use the bottom of the tire more than I would expect:

Darkside figure 8's in a parking lot]   Car Tire on a Goldwing

Both videos show the car tire lifting most of it's tread when cornering.  Yeah, people ride on car tires and drag pegs while doing so.  But you are giving up some of your margin of safety.  Your choice of tires is a matter of personal priorities.  If I was putting on several tens of thousands of mile a year commuting or touring I would likely be riding on the darkside.  But I'm not, I'm riding city streets and I prefer to stack my odds toward avoiding accidents.
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #12 - 10/11/08 at 22:41:47
 
I will say that 80% or more of my miles are put on going down the highway. The bike is fun of course, but I got it to save gas money without having to give up going far distances. I like the picture taking trips and camping trips and the just going places trips.

Add to that that I want to be able to go where ever there's at least one rut to follow into the boonies and you can figure out why the 650 was my choice. It does all of those things pretty well. Could be more comfortable, could be bigger and could be prettier. If it were all of those things though I probably would have to think twice (or more) about going and doing.

So for me the choice to go to a car tire wasn't a difficult one. I'll never be the hard core twisties kind of rider, although the bike seems pretty sticky in the turns all the same. I will be piling on most of my miles going down the highway or going putt-putt down a dirt three tracker looking for an abandoned farm sight to photograph. It stops better and feels more secure in the rain so it works for me for what I do with the ride. And getting 30k or more is the icing on the cake. Or should that be whipped cream on the cheese cake? Or maybe the ice cream on the apple pie. See - I think about other things too.

Jack
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #13 - 10/12/08 at 06:01:46
 
Nice videos.  How about we show one of a bike running at real road speeds instead of ones cutting figure "8"s at floor board scraping lean angles at a fast walking pace?   Just for the fun of it, let's show a radial tire functioning properly -- doing what radial tires actually do at mountain turn speeds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQtlt-HFFoo

Point here is that this is all been done before, exhaustively by the touring people.  Final result is that open minded folks try it out and then stick with it and the closed minded folks continue to buy expensive motorcycle tires and complain about the big $$$ cost and hassles every other summer.

You are not going to change closed minds, so don't bother trying.
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Re: car tire on the 07 s-40
Reply #14 - 10/12/08 at 06:50:27
 


That video ALSO shows that the car tire lifts the majority of it's tread off the road when cornering.  The above frame clearly show the tire running on a small portion of the edge:

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 10/12/08 at 06:01:46:
....You are not going to change closed minds, so don't bother trying.
I am not trying to change your mind.  I am trying to save the lives of others who might think that a car tire will corner as well as a bike tire.  I have no problem with people taking chances as long as they know that they are increasing their risks.  If SoCal40 wants to save a few bucks I am perfectly willing to let him run a car tire, I'll even help him mount it.  But if he takes it up on Angels Crest and drifts to the edge of a curve into the dusty part and his tire cuts out and he disappears over the side I want to be able to say "I told you so!" rather than "Oh my God, I've Killed him!"
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