SuzukiSavage.com - piston alloy

Red_Wine

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Chain-drive, 400cc
Black Savage in
Chile

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Santiago, Chile
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piston alloy
10/07/08 at 14:48:15

Hi fellas,

As you know, my 400cc Savage has been sitting for over a year :'( as a result of of a major f**k in the top end and twisted rings and damaged piston. Sad

As it is virtually impossible to get a new 400cc piston for my Savage, I am planning to have a piston made at a local machine shop. However, I need to know the type of material it is made of. I know the piston is an alluminum alloy, but how much is aluminum and how much other metals? Huh

Any ideas or suggestions? Anything I should be careful about?

Thanks in advance and take care.

Best,

RW

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T Mack 1 - FSO

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sold 2001 LS650 for
a 1986 XLH1100

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Emmaus,Pa
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Re: piston alloy
Reply #1 - 10/07/08 at 15:02:49

Did you check out Wiseco???

They have LS650 pistons. If you know the bore, maybe you can contact them and ask if they have equivalent.

http://www.wiseco.com/

here's their LS650 numbers.... but I though STD was 94mm Huh

LS650 Part Number Price BoreSize/
OverSize Attributes

4597M09500 $182.18 95.00mm /
STD Displacement: 641cc
Stroke: 90.40mm

4597M09600 $182.18 96.00mm /
1.00mm Displacement: 654cc
Stroke: 90.40mm

4597M09700 $200.41 97.00mm /
2.00mm Displacement: 668cc
Stroke: 90.40mm

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Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
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Red_Wine

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Chain-drive, 400cc
Black Savage in
Chile

Posts: 478
Santiago, Chile
Gender: male

Re: piston alloy
Reply #2 - 10/07/08 at 15:30:37

T Mack,

Thanks for the info, but I doubt the 650 piston will work on my 400. I will try to contact them and find out if they will make one for me, but I guess it will be dammed expensive.

Do you know what alloy is the piston? Maybe I can get a similar alloy here and have a piston made locally. I hate to see the bike sitting for so long and no piston to get it running. Everything else is OK.

I will check the bore of the cylinder over the weekend if i can catch my mechanic.

Thanks.

RW

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mikestrikes Ex Member	Re: piston alloy Reply #3 - 10/07/08 at 17:02:45 Most pistons are made from 2618 alloy.. http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/2618.asp#chemistry
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BurnPgh

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SuzukiSavage.com
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Re: piston alloy
Reply #4 - 10/07/08 at 17:34:15

I have no experience with the LS400, but I think with Hondas over seas shadows the only engine difference is bore and piston size. If you'll potentially spend a whole bunch getting a new 400 piston why not just bore it out and get a 650 piston? Should be like a whole new bike. Just curious, what kind of gas consumption are/were you getting with the 400?

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EssForty Senior Member Offline Sunshine, Surf & Suzuki Posts: 382 Melbourne, FL Gender:	Re: piston alloy Reply #5 - 10/07/08 at 18:43:36 Unlikely you could bore out a 400 to a 650. Good rule of thumb is 2mm bore max. Not sure what the stroke is but let's guess 75mm. So I'd think you'd be doing good if you could bore a 400 to a 430cc. Anyone else have experience boring 5 mm or more?
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EssForty

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Melbourne, FL
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Re: piston alloy
Reply #6 - 10/07/08 at 18:58:00

mikestrikes wrote on 10/07/08 at 17:02:45:

Most pistons are made from 2618 alloy..

http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/2618.asp#chemistry

Yes. Low silicon alloys like 2618 are pretty common. Another piston option is 4032, but is less likely. If the OP has a foundry or test lab nearby they could zap it with a spectrometer and have an answer quickly.

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06 S40, Deuce shield, OEM saddlebags & Engine Guard, ENM tach, Sigma 1106 Speedo, oil pressure & voltage gauges, grip puppies, Kuryakyn Ellipse mirrors, ISO pegs & throttle boss

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Yonuh Adisi FSO

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Pilot Valley NV, aka Tatooine
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Re: piston alloy
Reply #7 - 10/07/08 at 23:07:46

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 10/07/08 at 15:02:49:

Did you check out Wiseco???

They have LS650 pistons. If you know the bore, maybe you can contact them and ask if they have equivalent.

http://www.wiseco.com/

here's their LS650 numbers.... but I though STD was 94mm Huh

LS650 Part Number Price BoreSize/
OverSize Attributes

4597M09500 $182.18 95.00mm /
STD Displacement: 641cc
Stroke: 90.40mm

4597M09600 $182.18 96.00mm /
1.00mm Displacement: 654cc
Stroke: 90.40mm

4597M09700 $200.41 97.00mm /
2.00mm Displacement: 668cc
Stroke: 90.40mm

I thought wiseco didn't do the LS650 piston anymore? I know Mikestrikes has posted a thread where they told him they don't have that piston.

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dasch Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1137	Re: piston alloy Reply #8 - 10/07/08 at 23:47:51 Have you measured the 400cc's piston?? We had this discussion somewhere, can't remember now, but It may be that shorter stroke is the only difference between 650 and 400. In that case you need a 650 piston (94mm, I think). It's worth a try.
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KwakNut

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SuzukiSavage.com
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Sheffield, England, mostly.
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Re: piston alloy
Reply #9 - 10/08/08 at 00:44:46

Red_Wine wrote on 10/07/08 at 14:48:15:

I am planning to have a piston made at a local machine shop. However, I need to know the type of material it is made of. I know the piston is an alluminum alloy, but how much is aluminum and how much other metals? Huh

Have a really good think about getting a local machine shop to make you a piston when they don't even know what material to use - you can't just turn a piston out of piece of aluminium bar, they have to be cast or preferably forged to have the right pre-stressing, and only a specialised piston manufacturer can do this.
Even then, the manufacturing processes are critical to make a piston which is neither too soft nor too brittle.

Order one from a piston manufacturer. When you have your newly delivered piston, take it to the machine shop with your cylinder to get the rebore done, but unless your local shop is an incredibly special place, don't let them try making you a piston.

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Red_Wine

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Chain-drive, 400cc
Black Savage in
Chile

Posts: 478
Santiago, Chile
Gender: male

Re: piston alloy
Reply #10 - 10/08/08 at 06:54:51

BurnPgh wrote on 10/07/08 at 17:34:15:

I have no experience with the LS400, but I think with Hondas over seas shadows the only engine difference is bore and piston size. If you'll potentially spend a whole bunch getting a new 400 piston why not just bore it out and get a 650 piston? Should be like a whole new bike. Just curious, what kind of gas consumption are/were you getting with the 400?

I do not think boring the cyl up will allow for a 650 piston. Besides, the head is different from the 650.

I was getting around 20 kms per liter of gas on my 400.
Take care,

RW

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Red_Wine

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Chain-drive, 400cc
Black Savage in
Chile

Posts: 478
Santiago, Chile
Gender: male

Re: piston alloy
Reply #11 - 10/08/08 at 07:00:19

KwakNut wrote on 10/08/08 at 00:44:46:

Order one from a piston manufacturer. When you have your newly delivered piston, take it to the machine shop with your cylinder to get the rebore done, but unless your local shop is an incredibly special place, don't let them try making you a piston.

KwakNut,

Thanks for the info. I have a major issue though.

I think there is no piston manufacturer in Chile using forged or cast technologies; most of them are in Argentina, or Brazil. I only know machine shops here, and you may be right they are not specialized in making pistons. I will have to double check on this.

I'll keep everyone posted on progress.

Best,

RW

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SV og LS

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Kawasaki ZZR 1200

Posts: 236

Re: piston alloy
Reply #12 - 10/08/08 at 07:33:10

Having one single piston machined from billet is not practical but slightly modifying another piston is doable. Take your old piston to a good shop who do engine overhauls and stuff and ask them to find a close match. They should have reference books with specs of pistons from engine part manufacturers. I can mail you links to shops who deal with grey market Jap bikes and spares if you're interested?

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Red_Wine Senior Member Offline Chain-drive, 400cc Black Savage in Chile Posts: 478 Santiago, Chile Gender:	Re: piston alloy Reply #13 - 10/08/08 at 09:35:17 SV og LS wrote on 10/08/08 at 07:33:10: I can mail you links to shops who deal with grey market Jap bikes and spares if you're interested? Please, do. I will appreciate it very much. Thanks, RW
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Red_Wine

Senior Member

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Chain-drive, 400cc
Black Savage in
Chile

Posts: 478
Santiago, Chile
Gender: male

Re: piston alloy
Reply #14 - 10/09/08 at 15:21:06

I got this message from SV og LS:

"Sender: SV og LS
To: Red_Wine

Subject: Links
Date: Yesterday at 20:25:14
BAT Motorcycles have good connections to Japan and should be able to source you a piston. Here you can fill detailed parts search and if some breakers have the part, they'll contact you. To be honest I'm afraid you won't find a 400 piston at least for a reasonable price. You may need to buy a whole 650 engine which don't cost that much these days. I hope you'll find something to fix your problem.

Maybe someone else is also needing this info.

I have already contacted them, hopefully it will work.

Best,

RW

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