SuzukiSavage.com - Aviation Fuel

itschnobigdeal YaBB Newbies Offline '96 Savage Posts: 24 Duluth, MN Gender:	Aviation Fuel 08/18/08 at 07:06:10 Would it be bad if a bunch of 100LL aviation fuel found it's way into my Savage's gas tank? (ie: I can get a bunch of it for free, and it smells really good) (ie again: I tried a half tank and I thought it ran great!) Am I facing long term problems though?
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Gort

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Re: Aviation Fuel
Reply #1 - 08/18/08 at 07:28:34

itschnobigdeal wrote on 08/18/08 at 07:06:10:

Would it be bad if a bunch of 100LL aviation fuel found it's way into my Savage's gas tank?

(ie: I can get a bunch of it for free, and it smells really good)

(ie again: I tried a half tank and I thought it ran great!)

Am I facing long term problems though?

In so far as the extra octane is concerned, if you ask the gasoline companies, they will tell you that if your engine is not designed to use the higher octane, then it will ignore it as if it didn't exist. They will tell you it will neither benefit or suffer from its use.

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Charon

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Re: Aviation Fuel
Reply #2 - 08/18/08 at 07:58:34

Aviation fuel is designed to have relatively low volatility. That's so it doesn't evaporate from tanks at high altitude, and to reduce the chances of vapor lock. What it means for you is the chance of harder starting, because the less volatile fuel doesn't evaporate quite as easily in a cold carburetor/engine.

If you use leaded fuel, you will need to change your oil more often, as lead will eventually contaminate the oil. Do not use synthetic oil with leaded fuels, as the oils will not keep lead particles in suspension. The lead will also foul your spark plug more quickly. And it will leave lead deposits in the exhaust pipe although they do no harm except toxicity when you work with the exhaust.

I used to fly a little, and of course talked with the guys at the FBO. Every so often they had to drain fuel from aircraft for some reason, and they weren't allowed to put it back because they couldn't be sure it wasn't contaminated. So they burned it in airport equipment like their mowers and the fuel truck. They said the AVGAS didn't seem to run as well as regular MOGAS.

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Eschew obfuscation.

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Jerry Eichenberger

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Re: Aviation Fuel
Reply #3 - 08/18/08 at 08:58:37

I concur with Charon. I am a current commercial pilot, flight inbstructor, and I own an FBO, so I know a little about 100LL (that's 100 octane, low lead).

100LL is the only leaded gasoline left, and it exists only because certain airplane engines require the 100 octance rating. Some of the older engines, like on warbirds and the old piston engine airliners, actually required 130 at one time, but by altering the ignition timing, they can be run on the 100LL.

Why introduce lead into an engine not designed for it? Stuck valves, fouled plugs, and lead in the oil are all the results of using lead where it wasn't intended?

Some old, smaller airplane engines were designed to use 80 octance, and now that we only have 100LL gas for aviation, lots of those engines are fouling and their valves are sticking as a result, since 100LL still has 4 times more lead in it than the old 80 octance did.

Stay with mogas.

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Jerry Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio

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vtail Senior Member Offline life's short, ride fast Posts: 408 Portland,OR Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #4 - 08/18/08 at 09:10:53 I concur with all of the above. However, when in over winter storage i do fill the tank with avgas (since i have easy access) and run the bike 15 miles. Next spring it starts immediately. With regular gas ages I would put some "Stabil". Done this (Avgas) for years and i feel that one tank is not going to hurt, lead wise.
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itschnobigdeal YaBB Newbies Offline '96 Savage Posts: 24 Duluth, MN Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #5 - 08/18/08 at 12:21:24 I manage an FBO actually, that's why I can sneak a few gallons out here and there for free. I suppose it isn't worth the potential problems to save a few bucks in gas money. Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated! I have heard of putting that in your tank at the end of the year too, I'll probably do that.
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Savage_Amusement Serious Thumper Offline On this steel horse I ride. Posts: 1004 Omaha, NE Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #6 - 08/18/08 at 20:48:57 I worked at an FBO for quite awhile and it really doesn't hurt anything to add some to regular gas. The stuff works awesome in chainsaws, we always had the fire department coming up and buying our "waste" fuel. Straight it can burn weak spots in your exhaust and can burn up catalytic converters.
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itschnobigdeal YaBB Newbies Offline '96 Savage Posts: 24 Duluth, MN Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #7 - 08/19/08 at 08:30:23 And your Savage will idle like absolute poo poo. As I've leanred now... I added 1 gallon, which gave me a full tank (half reg, half 100LL). Now that I've gone over 50 miles on this tank it's started to idle like crap, backfire waaay more, and seem to run more "hot." A mistake I won't make again.
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Gort Ex Member	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #8 - 08/19/08 at 08:40:49 It would be interesting to learn what is the difference in the additive packages between av gas and car gas, and if the octane rating of av gas is always controlled by the old lead method, or if it is sometimes controlled by other chemistry as is in all car gas sold in the USA.
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Crotchrocket YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 29	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #9 - 08/19/08 at 19:47:12 Interesting to see so many aviation professionals here. I'm a CFI too, and the only thing I can say with certainty is that 100LL smells better.
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Savage_Amusement Serious Thumper Offline On this steel horse I ride. Posts: 1004 Omaha, NE Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #10 - 08/20/08 at 14:51:45 I went to school to be an AMT, but I get paid way better doing what I'm doing now and I don't have to worry about anybody crashing.
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mick Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Hell-bound Posts: 7323 Dayton Oregon Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #11 - 08/21/08 at 12:04:54 My B/in law drag races a chevy truck,his gas is 110 octain he pays $11 bucks a gallon for it, so I tried a gallon in my savage.huge difference in acceleration it really is like rocket fuel,that being said it showed no improvement in top speed, I just got up to it a heck of allot faster.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #12 - 08/21/08 at 12:54:09 Mick how fast will yours go?
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sockmonkeygirl

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Re: Aviation Fuel
Reply #13 - 08/21/08 at 17:15:55

I did want to raise the point about flammability. Isn't aviation fuel highly flammable? In the event that something dreadful happen, that bike might go up like a meteorite. I suppoze a rider isn't generally still on a bike after a crash..but, thought I'd mention.

I once had a friend who put it in his car. Upon impact, he, three other friends, and the car immediately perished in a very hot fire. The rims were nothing but smallish molten blobs.

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mick Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Hell-bound Posts: 7323 Dayton Oregon Gender:	Re: Aviation Fuel Reply #14 - 08/21/08 at 18:34:35 bill67 wrote on 08/21/08 at 12:54:09: Mick how fast will yours go? It will do 83mph,I had it up to a little over 85 with a tail wind,could have gone more I think,but I ran out of road.
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