SuzukiSavage.com - Help please - broken header stud

Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Help please - broken header stud Reply #15 - 05/18/08 at 19:37:37 doubt that a duble crush gasket would work - can you post a picture of the situation? I'm not believeing it can't be drilled out
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meck Junior Member Offline Posts: 73 Woonsocket, RI Gender:	Re: Help please - broken header stud Reply #16 - 05/18/08 at 19:55:28 http://flickr.com/photos/joshmathis/2504408562 It's a camera phone picture, but it's the best I have right now. I took this yesterday, before the welding adventure. I circled where the broken extractor piece is. Can something like that really be drilled out? Won't the bit just skip off to the softer metal around it?
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northshore_paul

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #17 - 05/18/08 at 20:14:48

Meck, at this point since you are dealing with a hard piece of steel (the extractor) and trying to get a straight drilling job into the bolt so you can remove it without widening the hole too much (difficult without a drill press) or being off center, I would opt for a machine shop. Remove the head and bring it to an automotive machine shop that does this day in and day out. It may be a little more expensive than doing it yourself but why go out and get another used head and incur that expense. Remember if you remove the head to also replace those head bolts because they also can broken off with repeated loosening and tightening. And don't forget to use the antiseize for all the new bolts you put in, you'll thank yourself next time. Sad

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Max_Morley

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #18 - 05/18/08 at 21:10:34

All you'll do with the doubled up gasket is decrease the thread engagement on the remaining side, not a good plan. Machine shop is a good plan at this point, you can remove the head w/o pulling the engine. Remove the head stay, the 2 long bolts that go through the front pegs and the upper rear engine bolt, loosen the lower rear one and the engine will tip down far enough to slide the head off the studs. with the cylinder intact. Worked for me and others before me. I also consider having anther welder take a crack at welding nut onto what is left of the stud, a talented welder can strike the arc on the stud and fill the nut and bond the whole works together on the way up and out. If concerned about the aluminum, use a piece of brass shim stock with a hole in it to shield the head/cylinder parts. I'd not consider it being new head time yet. Welder was wire feed or arc? Max

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meck

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #19 - 05/19/08 at 04:13:17

Thanks for the help, everyone!

Max_Morley: My father-in-law, who's an old-school Cummins mechanic, strongly suggested I take it to a welding shop and find someone really good with a cutting torch who could blow out that bit. I don't really understand it, but he said it's something they should know how to do. I'll try to have them weld a new nut on first, though. We used a wire-feed when we tried it.

If that fails, I'll remove the head and get to a machine shop. If this needs to be re-tapped, what are the thread specs?

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steely

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #20 - 05/19/08 at 04:27:43

I can see what your father-in-law is talking about, but it is going to take someone very skilled with the torch. They have to be careful to not over cut into the aluminum of the head...

EDM is also another option. When I did the same thing to the head on my GS850, EDM was suggested to me. It works, but it ain't cheap...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining

I ended up using very small drill bits to drill on four sides of the broken tool steel. It looks like you may have enough room to do this. Then I managed to pry the tool steel out with a small punch. I then took the head to a machine shop to have the head drilled and the threads cleaned up.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Help please - broken header stud Reply #21 - 05/19/08 at 04:52:38 Couldn't you drill a lot of small holes around it get the tool out,then drill it out for a bigger easyout the bigger one would be stronger and might not break.
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vroom1776 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 2110 Gender:	Re: Help please - broken header stud Reply #22 - 05/19/08 at 06:38:23 .
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verslagen1

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #23 - 05/19/08 at 08:41:22

Could see the pic, server down or some bs.

1st I would try to loosen the extractor by hitting it as close to sideways as possible from all four sides and see if you can pry it out.

If that don't work, I'd take to a pro. At least you can yell at him if he screws up. Shocked

You can drill hardened steel with carbide bits, But it sounds as though you don't have the skill to do this.

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steely

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #24 - 05/19/08 at 18:48:35

verslagen1 wrote on 05/19/08 at 08:41:22:

Could see the pic, server down or some bs.

1st I would try to loosen the extractor by hitting it as close to sideways as possible from all four sides and see if you can pry it out.

This is what I ended up doing with my GS. I drilled it out and then ended up prying it out once I had enough metal removed to get it out. I still had to have a helicoil put in to make everything work correctly. It cost me about $50 to have everything done once I got the extractor out....

Anti-seize is your friend...

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meck

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #25 - 05/20/08 at 18:03:34

I had a machinist friend come by and take a look. He didn't think it would be such a big deal to drill out, but after a couple hours he changed his mind. I'm going to take off the head and he's going to bring it in to the shop, drill it out, and put in a helicoil. I figure I've already put so much time into this that it's worth it.

I'm going to do the head plug fix while it's all apart... Northshore_Paul recommended replacing all the head bolts, so I guess I'll do that too. Is there anything else I should do while I'm in there? (This is a 1988 with 25K miles on it).

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Help please - broken header stud Reply #26 - 05/20/08 at 18:15:15 cam chain and verslagen adjuster check cylinder wear check valves open up exhaust port install lancer cam install lancer carb
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meck Junior Member Offline Posts: 73 Woonsocket, RI Gender:	Re: Help please - broken header stud Reply #27 - 05/20/08 at 18:20:27 That's quite a list - I was hoping to ride it again before August! I'm sure there are detail about that stuff in the Tech section, so I'll definitely read up on what's involved. Thanks again!
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Trippah

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #28 - 05/21/08 at 08:25:10

Hey Mech, isn't this neat? Stopped by the local Suzuki dealer, he said it would cost more than the bike was worth, referred me to a privateer who said it would cost a lot, but couldn't schedule it for three weeks, and then it would be down for 3 more weeks while he takes it apart, the machine shop does it thing, and then he puts it back together. Not looking good. He (the privateeeer mech) has less than glowing things to say about sears easy outs..seems they break very easily. (now I hear this) Shocked

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meck

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Re: Help please - broken header stud
Reply #29 - 05/21/08 at 08:33:02

Yeah, it's neat all right Roll Eyes

Sorry to hear about your troubles, too.

At least it's not beyond hope yet - free labor at the machine shop is a good thing.

Before I get to taking the head off, is there anything I should watch for? Losing the timing chain in the engine, etc? Before it gets drilled out, should I take any other precautions - remove some parts, secure others? I know it is designed to take vibration in that horizontal plane, but what about when it is turned 90 degrees on a press?

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