SuzukiSavage.com - Carb choke question

mdurham

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Carb choke question
02/18/08 at 17:49:51

I have a 97 LS650 Savage. I've posted this problem on a previous thread, but I have a new idea about the problem.

Problem: Bike starts up great (don't need to choke it), when it warms up, the carb loads up and the will eventually flood out. You can smell the gas, when I crank the throttel to keep it running, black comes out of the exauste. Bottom line, it acts like the choke is still open.

I took the carb off and cleaned it as outlined in the Clymer service manual.

Question: When I have the choked pushed in all the way in, there is sill at least 1/2" of the brass shaft of the choke still exposed. Do you think the choke is not shutting off all the way??
Is this how it is on your carbs. I have a Mikuni 24C4...which I'm pretty sure is the stock carb.

I just bought the bike this past fall (for my wife) knowing it had this problem, but got a good deal on it figuring I could fix the problem with a simple carb cleanup or rebuild, but so far hasn't worked.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

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verslagen1

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #1 - 02/18/08 at 18:39:55

I think the knob sticking out a bit is normal (at least that's the way I remember it)

When you cleaned the carb, did you get the slide nice and shiney?

What size is your main and idle jet?

Stock intake and exhaust?

There's a tip about checking your float level, Take a piece of clear tubing attach it to the drain port (I think) with engine off of course. Hold the tubing up next to the carb and open the drain valve. The gas level should come up to the top of the bowl when level. You guys correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't pay much attention to this cause I don't have a drain valve only a screw.

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mdurham

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #2 - 02/21/08 at 11:49:31

verslagen1 wrote on 02/18/08 at 18:39:55:

I think the knob sticking out a bit is normal (at least that's the way I remember it)

When you cleaned the carb, did you get the slide nice and shiney?

What size is your main and idle jet?

Stock intake and exhaust?

There's a tip about checking your float level, Take a piece of clear tubing attach it to the drain port (I think) with engine off of course. Hold the tubing up next to the carb and open the drain valve. The gas level should come up to the top of the bowl when level. You guys correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't pay much attention to this cause I don't have a drain valve only a screw.

The slide seemed pretty clean.

The main jet is a 45. I'm not sure what the idle jet size is, I couldn't find a number on it. If it's too big would it cause this problem?
The intake and exaust are stock as far as I know.

I checked the float level when I had the carb apart, think I'll try the method you've just described.

I'm sure the there's got to be a simple reason for it. There aren't that parts in the carb to check.

If the float was out of adjustment would this cause it to flood out at idle speed?

Thanks! I'm possesed now with solving this problem.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28905 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Carb choke question Reply #3 - 02/21/08 at 15:44:54 I think if you look close you'll see a 1 in front of the 45, which is stock. My guess, check the vac line for gas. Your petcock may have a leak.
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Inspector_Hound

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #4 - 03/01/08 at 05:42:42

I'm having this exact same problem. Yesterday morning I got the bike back from the shop, where I got a nasty oil leak fixed, so I of course immediately assumed sabotage. It rode home from the shop fine, but about 12 miles into an 18 mile ride that evening, it started trying to die at higher speeds. Then I began to decelerate and the bike just died. I tried to get it started a few more times in a parking lot, and it finally did. Every time I turned it over, though, it smelled like a badly maintained go-cart--a very strong gas smell, accompanied by black exhaust. After a lot of frustration and checking basic things, I decided the carb must be getting flooded with gas. I can't recall what setting the petcock was on--I'm hoping I was just being stupid and had it on PRI. I managed to limp it back by adjusting the idle so it ran faster and keeping the throttle on to burn off the gas that I figured was flooding it.

One thing that's concerning me is that it really didn't have this problem before the shop.

How did you eventually solve this problem? Wait, did you solve the problem?

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T Mack 1 - FSO

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #5 - 03/01/08 at 08:45:14

Inspector_Hound wrote on 03/01/08 at 05:42:42:

I'm having this exact same problem. Yesterday morning I got the bike back from the shop, where I got a nasty oil leak fixed, so I of course immediately assumed sabotage. It rode home from the shop fine, but about 12 miles into an 18 mile ride that evening, it started trying to die at higher speeds. Then I began to decelerate and the bike just died. I tried to get it started a few more times in a parking lot, and it finally did. Every time I turned it over, though, it smelled like a badly maintained go-cart--a very strong gas smell, accompanied by black exhaust. After a lot of frustration and checking basic things, I decided the carb must be getting flooded with gas. I can't recall what setting the petcock was on--I'm hoping I was just being stupid and had it on PRI. I managed to limp it back by adjusting the idle so it ran faster and keeping the throttle on to burn off the gas that I figured was flooding it.

One thing that's concerning me is that it really didn't have this problem before the shop.

How did you eventually solve this problem? Wait, did you solve the problem?

Mdurham,
Did you get it figured out??? Did you plug the Vacuum line to the petcock and run on prime to see if the diaphram is bad (suck1ng fuel into carb thru the vacuum line...)

Inspector Hound,

What does the spark plug look like?

Here's a dumb question, sorry, but have to ask, did you have the choke on the whole time? You describe a fouling problem by too rich condition. Running with the choke on would do this and would start to foul a pulg in about that time frame..... (Yea, I know it's a dumb question, but have to ask it....)

If it wasn't an oops on the choke, call the shop and find out what they had to do to fix the leak. Expain what happened and they may be able to tell you what may have happened. Most likely they will tell you to bring it in. (LOL) I think your answer would be "How? It won't run...." which should get them to send a truck to get it.....

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Inspector_Hound

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #6 - 03/01/08 at 14:32:28

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 03/01/08 at 08:45:14:

Inspector Hound,

What does the spark plug look like?

Here's a dumb question, sorry, but have to ask, did you have the choke on the whole time? You describe a fouling problem by too rich condition. Running with the choke on would do this and would start to foul a pulg in about that time frame..... (Yea, I know it's a dumb question, but have to ask it....)

If it wasn't an oops on the choke, call the shop and find out what they had to do to fix the leak. Expain what happened and they may be able to tell you what may have happened. Most likely they will tell you to bring it in. (LOL) I think your answer would be "How? It won't run...." which should get them to send a truck to get it.....

No, the choke was out for a little while (cold engine, cold night), but I shut it a few minutes into the ride. I'll check on the spark plug.

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #7 - 03/02/08 at 10:34:19

On these carbs, what is commonly called the choke is not really a choke.
On older carbs a choke was a butterfly vane that restricted air flow to richen up the mix, hence the name choke.
On these carbs a richening valve causes the mixture to have more gas. If the richening valve is not functioning correctly, ( worn or somehow damaged), it can flood the engine as you describe.
If you take the carb apart, check the richening device for worn or damaged O rings, or looseness of the sliding valve.

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Inspector_Hound

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #8 - 03/05/08 at 11:09:01

Someone decided it would be a good idea to take my spark plug wrench, and I got all the way down to the spark plug before I realized it was gone.

Not a total loss, though. I turned the petcock to the "off" position (RES on my bike) with my bare hand and noticed there was fuel on it. Could a leak in the petcock/valve cause this problem? I also drained the carb and a bit of gasoline came out. Of course, I have no idea how much gas should come out under normal circumstances, so that doesn't really mean anything.

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T Mack 1 - FSO

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #9 - 03/05/08 at 12:15:34

Inspector_Hound wrote on 03/05/08 at 11:09:01:

Someone decided it would be a good idea to take my spark plug wrench, and I got all the way down to the spark plug before I realized it was gone.

Not a total loss, though. I turned the petcock to the "off" position (RES on my bike) with my bare hand and noticed there was fuel on it. Could a leak in the petcock/valve cause this problem? I also drained the carb and a bit of gasoline came out. Of course, I have no idea how much gas should come out under normal circumstances, so that doesn't really mean anything.

There are two seals on the petcock. First is a seal in the handle/lever side and the other is the Diaphram on the vacuum side. If you turn the lever just right, you can tip it a little against the sprint holding it tight and get a few drops out.

Question: has you petcock been converted to manual operation in otherwords, no vacuum line on back?????

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #10 - 03/05/08 at 12:15:53

check the vac line that runs from the carb to the petc0ck - should never be any fuel there - yes a funky petc0ck can cause you some serious problems - at total failure it will allow gas to fill the cylinder and thus the engine with fuel - if ran like this very long the engine is trashed

but the leak you describe might be the petc0ck o-ring seal at the tank - I'd sure figure which

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #11 - 03/08/08 at 13:24:40

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 03/05/08 at 12:15:34:

There are two seals on the petcock. First is a seal in the handle/lever side and the other is the Diaphram on the vacuum side. If you turn the lever just right, you can tip it a little against the sprint holding it tight and get a few drops out.

Question: has you petcock been converted to manual operation in otherwords, no vacuum line on back?????

There is indeed a vacuum line on the back.

An odd thing--I was expecting to have to drill through a plug, replace a screw, etc., to get to the mixture adjustment screw, but it was already uncovered--whoever owned this bike last must have adjusted it.

I got it working for a while by leaning out the mixture a bit, but it started stalling again while I was out just now. The weather is pretty cold and windy, and it was working fine when it was slightly warmer out, so that might have something to do with it (?).

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #12 - 03/09/08 at 13:49:32

verslagen1 wrote on 02/21/08 at 15:44:54:

I think if you look close you'll see a 1 in front of the 45, which is stock.

My guess, check the vac line for gas. Your petcock may have a leak.

It's this with me. I just drained the bowl again and checked the vac line, there was gas in it.

edit: I guess now the next step is to drain the fuel tank and take apart the petcock to see what's corroded/broken/missing?

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« Last Edit: 03/10/08 at 13:11:29 by Inspector_Hound »

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mdurham

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #13 - 03/13/08 at 15:22:24

I haven't solved the problem yet. I didn't know where the petcock vacuum line was, but now I know. I'm going to check that today as soon as I get home.

I've noticed that I've had the bike running on PRI. When I switched it to ON after a bit, the bike started popping and back firing out the exauste. It's very hard to keep running. Then I put it back to PRI and still is doing the same thing. Not sure what started that. After I cleaned the carb it ran real smooth... until it eventually loads up and dies.

Anyway, I'm going to check the petcock vacuum line and see what's going on there.

Thanks for the advice.!

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mdurham

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Re: Carb choke question
Reply #14 - 03/13/08 at 17:35:18

Got home, pulled the end of the petcock vacuum line and plugged it...NO MORE FLOODING Grin

I've been working on this since December, and it's as simple as a leakey petcock (99.9% sure)...wish I'd checked this before I pulled the carb and cleaned it, but at least I know I have a nice clean carb.

So now I need to decide if I should buy a new petcock assembly, or is there just some gaskets and o-ring probably needed.

I just bought this bike in October and have never really ridden it (it's for my wife) because of the flooding problem, so now I can get to the business of giving it a full service maintenance check and getting it road worthy.

Thanks to everybody for all of the advice!!

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