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Oil change intervals (Read 199 times)
Dark Savage
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Oil change intervals
02/15/08 at 06:37:28
 
I only ever run synthetic oil in any of my vehicles. I find it is cost effective because I can run the oil longer between changes. An owner's manual didn't come with my bike so I don't know what the standard oil change interval is. Is it similar to an old car (3000 miles)? This is my first motorcycle so I don't know what to expect for one of these engines.

Also, for those that run synthetic, how much farther should I push my oil change out? Have any of you done a used oil analysis to back up your extended OCI?
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KwakNut
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #1 - 02/15/08 at 07:31:25
 
I used to work for Mobil, and along with a lot of my colleages, used to send my own car oil samples off for full particulate and spectrographic lab tests after running Mobil 1 for 20,000 miles in the sump (back in 1988-91 in a 2-litre European car).  Generally, we'd double all intervals in the safe knowledge that the oil was giving better protection when due for change than a regular mineral oil was when brand new.
All you have to watch out for is fuel contamination or carbon build up from really bad blow-by if your rings are worn on an old engine; in either case, the oil can become too contaminated, but that's not likely unless your engine is worn out or running silly rich.
I've also run V8s and many bike engines for lots of miles with Mobil 1 on long intervals and found I get hardly any wear to the components that normally wear.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #2 - 02/15/08 at 07:52:20
 
I'm not a big fan of Mobil1 for my car (their 0w-40 shears back too much for my taste) but I was looking at some tests done by Amsoil for motorcycle oil and I really liked what I saw about Mobil1. That's probably what I'll be running until I get the guts to try one of the diesel oils.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #3 - 02/15/08 at 08:58:32
 
KwakNut wrote on 02/15/08 at 07:31:25:
I used to work for Mobil, and along with a lot of my colleages, used to send my own car oil samples off for full particulate and spectrographic lab tests after running Mobil 1 for 20,000 miles in the sump (back in 1988-91 in a 2-litre European car).  Generally, we'd double all intervals in the safe knowledge that the oil was giving better protection when due for change than a regular mineral oil was when brand new.
All you have to watch out for is fuel contamination or carbon build up from really bad blow-by if your rings are worn on an old engine; in either case, the oil can become too contaminated, but that's not likely unless your engine is worn out or running silly rich.
I've also run V8s and many bike engines for lots of miles with Mobil 1 on long intervals and found I get hardly any wear to the components that normally wear.



KwakNut, I always change my Mobil 1 every 3000 miles along with the filter, because I am concerned that since the car/motorcycle didn't start off new with Mobil 1,  it likely has residual sludge in the oil pan or on other internal parts of the engine.  My concern is that the Mobil 1 will start  loosening these contaminants and allow them to harm the internals as they circulate.  Was this subject addressed at Mobil?
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KwakNut
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #4 - 02/15/08 at 12:11:16
 
Arthur wrote on 02/15/08 at 08:58:32:
KwakNut, I always change my Mobil 1 every 3000 miles along with the filter, because I am concerned that since the car/motorcycle didn't start off new with Mobil 1,  it likely has residual sludge in the oil pan or on other internal parts of the engine.  My concern is that the Mobil 1 will start  loosening these contaminants and allow them to harm the internals as they circulate.  Was this subject addressed at Mobil?
Your caution is well thought out and logical – and I must admit I’ve always been a great advocate of preventative maintenance, so the idea of leaving oil in the sump for a long time was something that I didn’t embrace without a lot of convincing!

Mobil 1 isn’t chemically different to regular oils, it’s just ‘purer’ on a molecular level, so it’s more stable to physical and thermal breakdown, and produces less friction (& more protection).
It has a reasonably (but not excessively) strong detergent/dispersant package but it’s not going to suddenly strip crud out every nook and cranny of your motor.
I can see why you very sensibly want to be sure that previous oils haven’t left rubbish in there; for your own peace of mind, maybe you could change your first Mobil 1 fill after 3000 miles, then you can go to double book interval after.

Why do people change their oil so frequently?  Probably because it’s only a few short years since we had to, and good habits are hard to get out of!  Most of us were raised on brand-leading oils 20 or 30 years ago that were only as good as budget oils are now.  Times and technology change, but it’s hard for us to change our outlook as quickly.

That said, it certainly can’t do your engine harm if you put fresh Mobil 1 in every 3000 miles, or even every 300 miles if it comes to it, but it just doesn’t need it and you’d be spending good money unnecessarily.  
It’s like tyres.  You have to change budget brands every 10,000 miles if you’re lucky because they wear out, while Michelins might last 30,000 – and give you a quieter ride and better grip at the same time.  If you want you can change them when they’re only half worn – you could do, but why would you?  Unlike with tyres, there’s no visual indicator that your oil still has plenty of life in it unless you spend about $100 on having it tested, and perhaps that’s why people are over-cautious..

One thing for sure, absolutely for sure, is that the guys who put Mobil 1 15/50 in their motor every 6000 or 10000 miles are looking after their engine better than the guys who religiously swap Walmart own brand every 1000!



When I buy a car or bike and don’t know that the previous owner has run it on synthetic, I give the engine a good flush.
I get it to running temperature with the old then drain it off (keeping the oil filter in place) and refill with 50/50 mix of cheap engine oil and paraffin to use as flush.  I then run it for just 20-30 seconds at low revs (not at idle – go 2-3000rpm to ensure that the thinner mix is aquaplaning between cam and followers), turn off and leave it for 5 minutes to dissolve crud, run it for another 10-20 seconds then drain out – despite being fresh it comes out black.  
Next stage is another fill with ordinary mineral oil and a 30 second run to flush the paraffin/oil mix out and remaining crap, drain again, change filters and fill with Mobil 1.  


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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #5 - 02/15/08 at 21:14:02
 
well we only have 2 quarts to worry with for me it's 20w50 v-twin Mobil 1 summer and if i'm going to ride the savage when it's cold out it's 10w40 mx4t Mobil 1 - no more than 3000 miles normally less.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #6 - 02/16/08 at 03:54:17
 
when synthetics first started getting real popular, car magazines would recommend changing your oil after the first 100 miles, then at regular intervals. i assume this was to get rid of previous build up.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #7 - 02/16/08 at 04:01:51
 
rigidchop wrote on 02/16/08 at 03:54:17:
when synthetics first started getting real popular, car magazines would recommend changing your oil after the first 100 miles, then at regular intervals. i assume this was to get rid of previous build up.
More likely it was because car magazines are mostly manned by journalists rather than engineers or tribologists, and they like anybody else were a little scared of the unknown.

If the previous oils have been changed regularly and the engine isn’t a high-miler, there shouldn’t be any build up.

Synthetics keep your engine clean because they don’t break down and leave sludge, not because they have over-strong detergents, so they’re not going to clean out a dirty engine any more than a good quality mineral oil will.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #8 - 02/16/08 at 18:18:05
 
i'm not trying to be a smartass, but when you say that they dont break down ever, do you mean EVER? seems to me that any substance when applied to extreme heat and cold would break down eventually. of course im not a chemist either, but i play one on tv.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #9 - 02/16/08 at 18:43:05
 
  Back in the 50s when I was in high school a buddy of mines dad didn't every change oil, he just added oil,back then most motors would burn a quart in 1500 miles or so,I don't  know that he had any troubles doing that.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #10 - 02/17/08 at 02:58:53
 
rigidchop wrote on 02/16/08 at 18:18:05:
i'm not trying to be a smartass, but when you say that they dont break down ever, do you mean EVER? seems to me that any substance when applied to extreme heat and cold would break down eventually. of course im not a chemist either, but i play one on tv.
Yes they do of course break down, but much, much less than conventional mineral oils, and they resist overheating a whole lot better too.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #11 - 02/17/08 at 04:28:12
 
rigidchop wrote on 02/16/08 at 18:18:05:
i'm not trying to be a smartass, but when you say that they dont break down ever, do you mean EVER? seems to me that any substance when applied to extreme heat and cold would break down eventually. of course im not a chemist either, but i play one on tv.


They definitely can still break down. There's some car engines out there that will toast even the best synthetics in 3-5k miles. These same engines will toast conventional oil far sooner. My Audi 1.8 Turbo engine is one of these. I would NEVER put a conventional oil in it. It's very prone to sludge issues. That's one of my reasons for posting my original question. Being that this bike is air cooled I was wondering if it was particularly harsh on oil. Plus, I'm not familiar with normal oil change intervals on bikes anyway.

I still don't have a clear answer on what the MFR suggested oil change interval is. Can somebody let the light shine please?
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #12 - 02/17/08 at 04:51:10
 
Our bikes are relatively low temperature, low stress engines.  Head temps get up in the 200 plus range and oil temps get around 170 degrees normally.  This isn't very high -- your Ford engine gets hotter (on pupose, no less).

Why do we say we need synthetic oil in our scoots?   Because on a hot day stuck in traffic (idling) you can go right on up there in head temperature.  

You are shooting for bullet proof on purpose.
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Re: Oil change intervals
Reply #13 - 02/17/08 at 05:33:02
 
obviously any turbo vehicle that uses the same oil supply is gonna toast oil faster. there is alot of heat going into the turbo. and people that dont change there oil are a given, but have you ever seen a the insides of an engine that this has been done to? not pretty , lots of build up. i have bought alot of engines from the salvage yard and a good way to determine if the engine was taken care of, is to pull the valve cover. a vehicle that has had regular oil changes will have a slight gold tint to the insides of the engine. the darker the color the less maintenance. of course vehicle that have used syn oils only and changed regularly have a nice silver color to them. i may switch the syn oil, just to see if i like it.
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